AW: Difference between Klingon and Tengwar

Mark E. Shoulson mark at
Thu Sep 23 16:08:34 CDT 2021

On 9/23/21 2:49 PM, Shawn Steele via Unicode wrote:
> Note that Microsoft provided a pIqaD version of the Bing translator as 
> part of the Klingon translation, using the PUA conscript codepoints.  
> It was ‘my’ font, though it was also available for free.  It was up 
> for years, though as developers working on it moved it isn’t currently 
> up.  But Microsoft had an agreement 😊  (I know there are translation 
> quality issues, that’s out of my control).
Yeah, I was hoping maybe someone in Microsoft could help me find the 
right people to talk to at Paramount.
> There was a brief conversation of the encoding at that time, but, like 
> Mark’s efforts, it didn’t really get to the right people to sign off.
> I do think that Mark makes some good points about the current language 
> of the rejection perhaps being a bit off-putting for any future 
> discussions should someone be able to contact the right person at 
> Paramount.  IMO, perhaps it would be good to formally propose it 
> again, and get a rejection that explicitly notes the primary concern 
> is around the IP.  And hopefully doesn’t otherwise impugn the 
> worthiness of the proposal.
I *did* propose it again!  Again, I appreciate 
your sympathy, but when even your friends keep telling you to do things 
you've already done, as though they never happened, it's frustrating.

So I proposed it, and indeed I was again told (informally) that the IP 
is the sticking point (but the official document voted on,, is still 
about "dignity.")  Various past rejections, when they were recorded in 
the minutes (I don't think they always were) *did* indeed say that IP 
was the main problem, and I'll have to look back to see if they were 
explicit about what exactly Paramount needs to agree to, since 
apparently I don't understand that as well as I thought I did. The 
official response to 20-181?  It's at, and says, "UTC took no action."

So, "formally propose it again"?  Check.  "Get a rejection that 
explicitly notes..."?  That isn't up to me, and I guess that's why I'm 
speaking up here.

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