preliminary proposal: New Unicode characters for Arabic music half-flat and half-sharp symbols

[Philippe Verdy via Unicode]

Thanks!

Le dim. 27 mai 2018 22:18, Garth Wallace <gwalla at gmail.com> a écrit :

> Philippe is entirely correct here. The fact that a symbol has somewhat
> different meanings in different contexts does not mean that it is actually
> multiple visually identical symbols. Otherwise Unicode would be re-encoding
> the Latin alphabet many, many times over.
>
> During most of Bach's career, the prevailing tuning system was meantone.
> He wrote the Well-Tempered Clavier to explore the possibilities afforded by
> a new tuning system called well temperament. In the modern era, his work
> has typically been played in 12-tone equal temperament. That does not mean
> that the ♯ that Bach used in his score for the Well-Tempered Clavier was
> not the same symbol as the ♯ in his other scores, or that they somehow
> invisibly became yet another symbol when the score is opened on the music
> desk of a modern Steinway.
>
> On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 2:58 PM, Philippe Verdy <verdy_p at wanadoo.fr>
> wrote:
>
>> Even flat notes or rythmic and pause symbols in Western musical notations
>> have different contextual meaning depending on musical keys at start of
>> scores, and other notations or symbols added above the score. So their
>> interpretation are also variable according to context, just like tuning in
>> a Arabic musical score, which is also keyed and annotated differently.
>> These keys can also change within the same partition score.
>> So both the E12 vs. E24 systems (which are not incompatible) may also be
>> used in Western and Arabic music notations. The score keys will give the
>> interpretation.
>> Tone marks taken isolately mean absolutely nothing in both systems
>> outside the keyed scores in which they are inserted, except that they are
>> just glyphs, which may be used to mean something else (e.g. a note in a
>> comics artwork could be used to denote someone whistling, without actually
>> encoding any specific tone, or rythmic).
>>
>>
>> 2018-05-17 17:48 GMT+02:00 Hans Åberg via Unicode <unicode at unicode.org>:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > On 17 May 2018, at 16:47, Garth Wallace via Unicode <
>>> unicode at unicode.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 12:41 AM Hans Åberg <haberg-1 at telia.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > On 17 May 2018, at 08:47, Garth Wallace via Unicode <
>>> unicode at unicode.org> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 12:42 AM, Hans Åberg via Unicode <
>>> unicode at unicode.org> wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >> It would be best to encode the SMuFL symbols, which is rather
>>> comprehensive and include those:
>>> > >>  https://www.smufl what should be unified.org
>>> > >>  http://www.smufl.org/version/latest/
>>> > >> ...
>>> > >>
>>> > >> These are otherwise originally the same, but has since drifted. So
>>> whether to unify them or having them separate might be best to see what
>>> SMuFL does, as they are experts on the issue.
>>> > >>
>>> > > SMuFL's standards on unification are not the same as Unicode's. For
>>> one thing, they re-encode Latin letters and Arabic digits multiple times
>>> for various different uses (such as numbers used in tuplets and those used
>>> in time signatures).
>>> >
>>> > The reason is probably because it is intended for use with music
>>> engraving, and they should then be rendered differently.
>>> >
>>> > Exactly. But Unicode would consider these a matter for font switching
>>> in rich text.
>>>
>>> One original principle was ensure different encodings, so if the
>>> practise in music engraving is to keep them different, they might be
>>> encoded differently.
>>>
>>> > > There are duplicates all over the place, like how the half-sharp
>>> symbol is encoded at U+E282 as "accidentalQuarterToneSharpStein", at U+E422
>>> as "accidentalWyschnegradsky3TwelfthsSharp", at U+ED35 as
>>> "accidentalQuarterToneSharpArabic", and at U+E444 as "accidentalKomaSharp".
>>> They are graphically identical, and the first three even all mean the same
>>> thing, a quarter tone sharp!
>>> >
>>> > But the tuning system is different, E24 and Pythagorean. Some Latin
>>> and Greek uppercase letters are exactly the same but have different
>>> encodings.
>>> >
>>> > Tuning systems are not scripts.
>>>
>>> That seems obvious. As I pointed out above, the Arabic glyphs were
>>> originally taken from Western ones, but have a different musical meaning,
>>> also when played using E12, as some do.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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