VS: 4 Votes
Mjbmr
mjbmri at gmail.com
Mon May 18 07:26:32 CDT 2015
Erkki, what's your thoughts about following comment by Shervin.
On 5/17/2015 11:41 PM, Shervin Afshar wrote:
> This is not a defect; using "امریکا" rather than "آمریکا" (as well as
> "افریقا") is intentional. Refer to "غلط ننویسیم؛ فرهنگ دشواریهای زبان
> فارسی".
On 5/18/2015 10:05 AM, Erkki I Kolehmainen wrote:
>
> Effective mechanisms exist to take down wrong translations.
>
> A person can always change his or her own mind, but if a submitted
> value has been approved, the originator has no right to nullify the
> votes of others who have supported it.
>
> Erkki I. Kolehmainen
>
> *Lähettä**jä:*CLDR-Users [mailto:cldr-users-bounces at unicode.org]
> *Puolesta *Mjbmr
> *Lähetetty:* 17. toukokuuta 2015 22:34
> *Vastaanottaja:* cldr-users at unicode.org
> *Aihe:* Re: 4 Votes
>
> Why a Persian thinks that his Luri translation is good and no one can
> take it down?
>
> Why a Mazandarani can't take his own translation down?
>
> On 5/17/2015 11:57 PM, Erkki I Kolehmainen wrote:
>
> Sorry, but it seems to me that you believe to be absolutely right
> (which I am in no expert position to challenge), but in that case
> you should be able to convince other language experts and users to
> support your position and stop insisting that you should be able
> to override earlier approved values just because you say so. The
> purpose of the vetting process is to produce generally acceptable
> values, and the tickets complement it effectively.
>
> Erkki I. Kolehmainen
>
> *Lähettäjä:*Mjbmr [mailto:mjbmri at gmail.com]
> *Lähetetty:* 17. toukokuuta 2015 21:45
> *Vastaanottaja:* Erkki I Kolehmainen; cldr-users at unicode.org
> <mailto:cldr-users at unicode.org>
> *Aihe:* Re: 4 Votes
>
> Actually I was telling the reasons stops me from contributing. So
> please don't call it open source when I as a "guest" can't
> override an approved wrong item.
>
> On 5/17/2015 6:10 PM, Erkki I Kolehmainen wrote:
>
> Dear Mjbmr,
>
> Submitting a ticket is the agreed-upon method to make (and –
> in fact - authorize) TC to act on specific issues, not a
> discussion on the cldr-users mailing list. Other than that, it
> is justifiably somewhat more difficult to overturn an
> _/approved/_ value than to introduce a new one.
>
> Discussion on the ticket also invites more effectively the
> interested parties to express and justify their positions.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Erkki I. Kolehmainen
>
> Tilkankatu 12 A 3, 00300 Helsinki, Finland
>
> Mob: +358400825943, Tel / Fax (by arr.): +358943682643
>
> *Lähettäjä:*CLDR-Users [mailto:cldr-users-bounces at unicode.org]
> *Puolesta *Mjbmr
> *Lähetetty:* 17. toukokuuta 2015 14:37
> *Vastaanottaja:* cldr-users at unicode.org
> <mailto:cldr-users at unicode.org>
> *Aihe:* Re: 4 Votes
>
> Shervin, I wasn't "mobilizing" people to vote, I asked to
> contribute.
>
> For example we found a horrible translation for PS territory
> code in Mazandarani language which I asked the original person
> to fix that, but I also voted for new translation, it's not
> going to be the winning item, ST has chose older translation
> over the new one even both have two votes. Please fix that.
>
> The translation for Northern Luri language in Northern Luri
> language you have put is "لری شمالی" which is wrong and should
> be "لوری مینجایی" which it couldn't be possible to take the
> approved one down with some votes.
>
> I also couldn't fix translation for such as "US English" in
> Persian, it's not going to loose approved translation.
>
> Most of translations for "America" is "Emrica" and "Africa" is
> "Efrica" in Persian.
>
> I remember back in a few years ago, I applied translations for
> these in Persian, but they are gone.
>
> Please don't ask me to submit a ticket for these problems, I
> already said what's required.
>
> On 5/17/2015 2:36 AM, John Emmons wrote:
>
> Generally speaking, they go from "guest" to "regular" by
> becoming members of the Unicode consortium.
>
> The TC always has the option ( but not the obligation ) to
> confer "regular" status on an individual for a particular
> language. We deal with these on a case by case basis.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> John C. Emmons
> Globalization Architect & Unicode CLDR TC Chairman
> IBM Software Group
> Internet: emmo at us.ibm.com <mailto:emmo at us.ibm.com>
>
>
>
>
> From: Shawn Steele <Shawn.Steele at microsoft.com>
> <mailto:Shawn.Steele at microsoft.com>
> To: John Emmons/Austin/IBM at IBMUS, "Steven R. Loomis"
> <srl at icu-project.org> <mailto:srl at icu-project.org>
> Cc: Shervin Afshar <shervinafshar at gmail.com>
> <mailto:shervinafshar at gmail.com>, "cldr-users at unicode.org"
> <mailto:cldr-users at unicode.org> <cldr-users at unicode.org>
> <mailto:cldr-users at unicode.org>, Mjbmr <mjbmri at gmail.com>
> <mailto:mjbmri at gmail.com>
> Date: 05/16/2015 04:48 PM
> Subject: RE: 4 Votes
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> How would unaffiliated folks go from “guest” to “regular”?
>
> It seems like if certain folks are interested in
> language(s) that the organizations working in CLDR don’t
> have a business interest in, it might be good to have a
> way to get at least some of the parties that are
> interested in those languages to be “regular”.
>
> -Shawn
>
> *From:*CLDR-Users [mailto:cldr-users-bounces at unicode.org]
> *On Behalf Of *John Emmons*
> Sent:* Saturday, May 16, 2015 2:38 PM*
> To:* Steven R. Loomis*
> Cc:* Shervin Afshar; cldr-users at unicode.org
> <mailto:cldr-users at unicode.org>; Mjbmr*
> Subject:* Re: 4 Votes
>
> I will definitely underline what Steven just said. Even a
> single vote ( 1 point ) will give an item
> draft="unconfirmed" status, which will make it part of the
> CLDR. The draft status is simply intended to be a rough
> measure of how much faith we put in the quality of any
> given data item.
>
> I certainly hope that you don't feel your efforts in
> contributing to the CLDR will be wasted.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> John C. Emmons
> Globalization Architect & Unicode CLDR TC Chairman
> IBM Software Group
> Internet: emmo at us.ibm.com <mailto:emmo at us.ibm.com>
>
>
>
>
> From: "Steven R. Loomis" <srl at icu-project.org
> <mailto:srl at icu-project.org>>
> To: Mjbmr <mjbmri at gmail.com <mailto:mjbmri at gmail.com>>
> Cc: Shervin Afshar <shervinafshar at gmail.com
> <mailto:shervinafshar at gmail.com>>, "cldr-users at unicode.org
> <mailto:cldr-users at unicode.org>" <cldr-users at unicode.org
> <mailto:cldr-users at unicode.org>>, John
> Emmons/Austin/IBM at IBMUS
> Date: 05/16/2015 01:41 PM
> Subject: Re: 4 Votes
> Sent by: "CLDR-Users" <cldr-users-bounces at unicode.org
> <mailto:cldr-users-bounces at unicode.org>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> In other words, provisional status does not mean that your
> votes are removed from CLDR! They become a part of the
> release on our freely available for implementations to use
>
> Enviado desde nuestro iPhone.
>
> El may 16, 2015, a las 11:28 AM, Mjbmr <mjbmri at gmail.com
> <mailto:mjbmri at gmail.com>> escribió:
>
> I only try to help these people and these languages,
> that's all. I'll give up if there is something blocking me.
>
> On 5/16/2015 10:28 PM, Shervin Afshar wrote:
> Actually I wasn't talking about any specific language.
>
> It's true about any language and guest voters voting on them.
>
> So if that's true, why didn't you tell me at the first
> time so I wouldn't waster my time on contacting people?
>
> Sorry to hear that you wasted your time mobilizing people
> to vote. I pointed you to the CLDR process document in the
> beginning of this thread. All the procedures and
> regulations regarding voting and contribution is
> documented there. I invite you to study that document
> carefully if you decide to keep contributing to the CLDR
> (which I hope you do).
>
> I'm sure we don't have high value vote people in Unicode
> organizations from all languages. Better be another
> choice, like a wiki would be better.
>
> Unicode and CLDR are not working with wiki model, but
> since you're involved with Wikimedia Foundation projects
> as well, you can bring their attention to the issue of
> your interest in these languages. On occasions, WMF has
> organizational votes on some locales:
> _
> _https://translatewiki.net/wiki/CLDR
>
>
> ↪ Shervin
>
> On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Mjbmr <mjbmri at gmail.com
> <mailto:mjbmri at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Actually I wasn't talking about any specific language.
>
> So if that's true, why didn't you tell me at the first
> time so I wouldn't waster my time on contacting people?
>
> I'm sure we don't have high value vote people in Unicode
> organizations from all languages. Better be another
> choice, like a wiki would be better.
>
>
> On 5/16/2015 10:08 PM, Shervin Afshar wrote:
> TC = Technical Committee. Unicode Consortium member
> organizations are listed at:
> http://www.unicode.org/consortium/members.html
>
> So why 4 guest vote won't get the item approved?
>
> All four of Northern Luri contributors are in the same
> organization ("guest") and therefore:
>
> For each value, each organization gets a vote based on the
> maximum (not cumulative) strength of the votes of its
> users who voted on that item. That is, even if an
> organization has 10 Vetters voting for an value, if the
> highest level is regular vetter, then the vote count
> attributed to the organization as a whole is 4.
>
> http://cldr.unicode.org/index/process#TOC-Voting-Process
>
>
> ↪ Shervin
>
> On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 10:29 AM, Mjbmr <mjbmri at gmail.com
> <mailto:mjbmri at gmail.com>> wrote:
> So why 4 guest vote won't get the item approved?
>
> What's the "TC"?
>
> Who are the members of unicode organization?
>
>
> On 5/12/2015 9:15 PM, John Emmons wrote:
> Depending on the level of account you have, most things
> will fall into one of the following buckets:
>
> Guest accounts receive 1 vote. Any data item with only 1
> vote will stlil go into CLDR as draft="unconfirmed".
>
> Regular vetter accounts from Unicode member organizations
> receive 4 votes. Most locales in CLDR only require 4
> votes for the item to be draft="approved" ( which is the
> meaning when no draft status is specifically mentioned in
> the data ). The only exceptions to this are the "high
> visibility" locales, ( examples would include things like
> German, French, Arabic, or Chinese ). For these locales,
> 8 votes are required in order to make a change ( 2 set of
> eyes from 2 different organizations ).
>
> TC member accounts receive 20 votes, and are used only to
> resolve disputes when necessary, and also to vote on high
> visibility items that require a TC review.
>
> Regards,
>
> John C. Emmons
> Globalization Architect & Unicode CLDR TC Chairman
> IBM Software Group
> Internet: emmo at us.ibm.com <mailto:emmo at us.ibm.com>
>
>
>
>
> From: Mjbmr <mjbmri at gmail.com> <mailto:mjbmri at gmail.com>
> To: Shervin Afshar <shervinafshar at gmail.com>
> <mailto:shervinafshar at gmail.com>
> Cc: cldr-users at unicode.org <mailto:cldr-users at unicode.org>
> Date: 05/11/2015 12:20 PM
> Subject: Re: 4 Votes
> Sent by: "CLDR-Users" <cldr-users-bounces at unicode.org>
> <mailto:cldr-users-bounces at unicode.org>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> I asked "will" they be removed? and by that I mean will
> they get into svn repos or not?
>
> On 5/11/2015 9:43 PM, Shervin Afshar wrote:
> They are not removed. If I'm not mistaken in interpreting
> the resolution rules[1], they end up being marked as
> "provisional".
>
> [1]:
> http://cldr.unicode.org/index/process#resolution_procedure
>
> ↪ Shervin
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 6:35 AM, Mjbmr <mjbmri at gmail.com
> <mailto:mjbmri at gmail.com>> wrote:
> If we don't reach 4 votes till the end of ST close time,
> will they be removed?
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