VS: 4 Votes

Mon May 18 00:35:35 CDT 2015

Effective mechanisms exist  to take down wrong translations.

A person can always change his or her own mind, but if a submitted value has been approved, the originator has no right to nullify the votes of others who have supported it.

Erkki I. Kolehmainen

Lähettäjä: CLDR-Users [mailto:cldr-users-bounces at unicode.org] Puolesta Mjbmr
Lähetetty: 17. toukokuuta 2015 22:34
Vastaanottaja: cldr-users at unicode.org
Aihe: Re: 4 Votes

Why a Persian thinks that his Luri translation is good and no one can take it down?

Why a Mazandarani can't take his own translation down?

On 5/17/2015 11:57 PM, Erkki I Kolehmainen wrote:

Sorry, but it seems to me that you believe to be absolutely right (which I am in no expert position to challenge), but in that case you should be able to convince other language experts and users to support your position and stop insisting that you should be able to override earlier approved values just because you say so. The purpose of the vetting process is to produce generally acceptable values, and the tickets complement it effectively.   

Erkki I. Kolehmainen

Lähettäjä: Mjbmr [mailto:mjbmri at gmail.com] 
Lähetetty: 17. toukokuuta 2015 21:45
Vastaanottaja: Erkki I Kolehmainen; cldr-users at unicode.org
Aihe: Re: 4 Votes

Actually I was telling the reasons stops me from contributing. So please don't call it open source when I as a "guest" can't override an approved wrong item.

On 5/17/2015 6:10 PM, Erkki I Kolehmainen wrote:

Dear Mjbmr,

Submitting a ticket is the agreed-upon method to make (and – in fact - authorize) TC to act on specific issues, not a discussion on the cldr-users mailing list. Other than that, it is justifiably somewhat more difficult to overturn an _approved_ value than to introduce a new one. 

Discussion on the ticket also invites more effectively the interested parties to express and justify their positions. 

Sincerely, 

Erkki I. Kolehmainen

Tilkankatu 12 A 3, 00300 Helsinki, Finland

Mob: +358400825943, Tel / Fax (by arr.): +358943682643

Lähettäjä: CLDR-Users [mailto:cldr-users-bounces at unicode.org] Puolesta Mjbmr
Lähetetty: 17. toukokuuta 2015 14:37
Vastaanottaja: cldr-users at unicode.org
Aihe: Re: 4 Votes

Shervin, I wasn't "mobilizing" people to vote, I asked to contribute.

For example we found a horrible translation for PS territory code in Mazandarani language which I asked the original person to fix that, but I also voted for new translation, it's not going to be the winning item, ST has chose older translation over the new one even both have two votes. Please fix that.

The translation for Northern Luri language in Northern Luri language you have put is "لری شمالی" which is wrong and should be "لوری مینجایی" which it couldn't be possible to take the approved one down with some votes.

I also couldn't fix translation for such as "US English" in Persian, it's not going to loose approved translation.

Most of translations for "America" is "Emrica" and "Africa" is "Efrica" in Persian.

I remember back in a few years ago, I applied translations for these in Persian, but they are gone.

Please don't ask me to submit a ticket for these problems, I already said what's required. 

On 5/17/2015 2:36 AM, John Emmons wrote:

Generally speaking, they go from "guest" to "regular" by becoming members of the Unicode consortium. 

The TC always has the option ( but not the obligation ) to confer "regular" status on an individual for a particular language.  We deal with these on a case by case basis. 

Regards,

John C. Emmons
Globalization Architect & Unicode CLDR TC Chairman
IBM Software Group
Internet: emmo at us.ibm.com

From:        Shawn Steele  <mailto:Shawn.Steele at microsoft.com> <Shawn.Steele at microsoft.com> 
To:        John Emmons/Austin/IBM at IBMUS, "Steven R. Loomis"  <mailto:srl at icu-project.org> <srl at icu-project.org> 
Cc:        Shervin Afshar  <mailto:shervinafshar at gmail.com> <shervinafshar at gmail.com>,  <mailto:cldr-users at unicode.org> "cldr-users at unicode.org"  <mailto:cldr-users at unicode.org> <cldr-users at unicode.org>, Mjbmr  <mailto:mjbmri at gmail.com> <mjbmri at gmail.com> 
Date:        05/16/2015 04:48 PM 
Subject:        RE: 4 Votes 

  _____  

How would unaffiliated folks go from “guest” to “regular”?   

It seems like if certain folks are interested in language(s) that the organizations working in CLDR don’t have a business interest in, it might be good to have a way to get at least some of the parties that are interested in those languages to be “regular”. 

-Shawn 

From: CLDR-Users [ <mailto:cldr-users-bounces at unicode.org> mailto:cldr-users-bounces at unicode.org] On Behalf Of John Emmons
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 2:38 PM
To: Steven R. Loomis
Cc: Shervin Afshar; cldr-users at unicode.org; Mjbmr
Subject: Re: 4 Votes 

I will definitely underline what Steven just said.  Even a single vote ( 1 point ) will give an item draft="unconfirmed" status, which will make it part of the CLDR. The draft status is simply intended to be a rough measure of how much faith we put in the quality of any given data item. 

I certainly hope that you don't feel your efforts in contributing to the CLDR will be wasted. 

Regards,

John C. Emmons
Globalization Architect & Unicode CLDR TC Chairman
IBM Software Group
Internet:  <mailto:emmo at us.ibm.com> emmo at us.ibm.com

From:        "Steven R. Loomis" < <mailto:srl at icu-project.org> srl at icu-project.org> 
To:        Mjbmr < <mailto:mjbmri at gmail.com> mjbmri at gmail.com> 
Cc:        Shervin Afshar < <mailto:shervinafshar at gmail.com> shervinafshar at gmail.com>, " <mailto:cldr-users at unicode.org> cldr-users at unicode.org" < <mailto:cldr-users at unicode.org> cldr-users at unicode.org>, John Emmons/Austin/IBM at IBMUS 
Date:        05/16/2015 01:41 PM 
Subject:        Re: 4 Votes 
Sent by:        "CLDR-Users" < <mailto:cldr-users-bounces at unicode.org> cldr-users-bounces at unicode.org> 

  _____  

In other words, provisional status does not mean that your votes are removed from CLDR! They become a part of the release on our freely available for implementations to use

Enviado desde nuestro iPhone. 

El may 16, 2015, a las 11:28 AM, Mjbmr <mjbmri at gmail.com> escribió:

I only try to help these people and these languages, that's all. I'll give up if there is something blocking me.

On 5/16/2015 10:28 PM, Shervin Afshar wrote: 
Actually I wasn't talking about any specific language. 

It's true about any language and guest voters voting on them. 

So if that's true, why didn't you tell me at the first time so I wouldn't waster my time on contacting people? 

Sorry to hear that you wasted your time mobilizing people to vote. I pointed you to the CLDR process document in the beginning of this thread. All the procedures and regulations regarding voting and contribution is documented there. I invite you to study that document carefully if you decide to keep contributing to the CLDR (which I hope you do). 

I'm sure we don't have high value vote people in Unicode organizations from all languages. Better be another choice, like a wiki would be better. 

Unicode and CLDR are not working with wiki model, but since you're involved with Wikimedia Foundation projects as well, you can bring their attention to the issue of your interest in these languages. On occasions, WMF has organizational votes on some locales: 

https://translatewiki.net/wiki/CLDR 

↪ Shervin 

On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Mjbmr <mjbmri at gmail.com> wrote: 
Actually I wasn't talking about any specific language.

So if that's true, why didn't you tell me at the first time so I wouldn't waster my time on contacting people?

I'm sure we don't have high value vote people in Unicode organizations from all languages. Better be another choice, like a wiki would be better. 

On 5/16/2015 10:08 PM, Shervin Afshar wrote: 
TC = Technical Committee. Unicode Consortium member organizations are listed at: http://www.unicode.org/consortium/members.html 

So why 4 guest vote won't get the item approved? 

All four of Northern Luri contributors are in the same organization ("guest") and therefore: 

For each value, each organization gets a vote based on the maximum (not cumulative) strength of the votes of its users who voted on that item. That is, even if an organization has 10 Vetters voting for an value, if the highest level is regular vetter, then the vote count attributed to the organization as a whole is 4. 

http://cldr.unicode.org/index/process#TOC-Voting-Process 

↪ Shervin 

On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 10:29 AM, Mjbmr <mjbmri at gmail.com> wrote: 
So why 4 guest vote won't get the item approved?

What's the "TC"?

Who are the members of unicode organization? 

On 5/12/2015 9:15 PM, John Emmons wrote: 
Depending on the level of account you have, most things will fall into one of the following buckets: 

Guest accounts receive 1 vote.  Any data item with only 1 vote will stlil go into CLDR as draft="unconfirmed". 

Regular vetter accounts from Unicode member organizations receive 4 votes.  Most locales in CLDR only require 4 votes for the item to be draft="approved" ( which is the meaning when no draft status is specifically mentioned in the data ).  The only exceptions to this are the "high visibility" locales, ( examples would include things like German, French, Arabic, or Chinese ).  For these locales, 8 votes are required in order to make a change ( 2 set of eyes from 2 different organizations ). 

TC member accounts receive 20 votes, and are used only to resolve disputes when necessary, and also to vote on high visibility items that require a TC review.

Regards,

John C. Emmons
Globalization Architect & Unicode CLDR TC Chairman
IBM Software Group
Internet:  <mailto:emmo at us.ibm.com> emmo at us.ibm.com

From:        Mjbmr  <mailto:mjbmri at gmail.com> <mjbmri at gmail.com> 
To:        Shervin Afshar  <mailto:shervinafshar at gmail.com> <shervinafshar at gmail.com> 
Cc:         <mailto:cldr-users at unicode.org> cldr-users at unicode.org 
Date:        05/11/2015 12:20 PM 
Subject:        Re: 4 Votes 
Sent by:        "CLDR-Users"  <mailto:cldr-users-bounces at unicode.org> <cldr-users-bounces at unicode.org> 

  _____  

I asked "will" they be removed? and by that I mean will they get into svn repos or not?

On 5/11/2015 9:43 PM, Shervin Afshar wrote: 
They are not removed. If I'm not mistaken in interpreting the resolution rules[1], they end up being marked as "provisional". 

[1]: http://cldr.unicode.org/index/process#resolution_procedure 

↪ Shervin 

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 6:35 AM, Mjbmr <mjbmri at gmail.com> wrote: 
If we don't reach 4 votes till the end of ST close time, will they be removed?
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