<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/20/2025 12:12 PM, Piotr Karocki
via Unicode wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:242a8e1ef57733718a4c2acb831e36cb@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<meta name="Generator"
content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<style>@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}@font-face
{font-family:"Lucida Console";
panose-1:2 11 6 9 4 5 4 2 2 4;}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0cm;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0cm;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;}span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}</style>
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Asmus
Freytag wrote:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Unicode [mailto:<a
href="mailto:unicode-bounces@corp.unicode.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">unicode-bounces@corp.unicode.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Asmus Freytag via Unicode<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 20 April 2025 20:25<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:unicode@corp.unicode.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">unicode@corp.unicode.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Recycling symbols</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 4/20/2025 12:43 AM, Piotr Karocki via
Unicode wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>Seems like writing proposal is harder than I thought :)</pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yes. it's a bit of work, but remember, once
a character is encoded, it is forever. That means that it is
worthwhile to spend a bit of time at the start to get it
right. Even if that can be a bit frustrating.<br>
<br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:#0070c0">It
is not only frustrating - I cannot create glyphs. I can only
create (maybe sufficient) justification for adding such
symbols :)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
I wouldn't worry, at this stage, about being able to create glyphs.
Because they are variations of existing glyphs, that part of the
process is easily managed -- once there's a decision made that the
justification is compelling. So, focus on that. (For illustration,
the samples from Wikipedia are a good stand-in).<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:242a8e1ef57733718a4c2acb831e36cb@mail.gmail.com">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p>In some cases, the version you cite is the original edition
from 1994. However, the notes indicate that some revisions
took place in 2018. </p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:#0070c0">Changing
from original version to version with all revisions
incorporated is only one click away :) </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:#1f497d"></span></p>
<p><span style="color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
No, you don't get to tell reviewers to "click through". All URLs
must be to the final document you are citing (and if you'd like to
cite the overview page, that is a separate reference).<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:242a8e1ef57733718a4c2acb831e36cb@mail.gmail.com">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p>Your task goes beyond collecting a bibliography like this.
You need to cite individual passages, with images as
appropriate. If you can, it would be appropriate to show some
examples where these appear in print, not just embossed in the
container. This serves two purposes: to document that these
can be considered "text" and that there is evidence that the
regulation is effective.</p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:#0070c0">This
symbols appears on most labels in EU. It should appear on
all labels, though, as it is required by law.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:#0070c0">Maybe,
if using such symbols be less cumbersome (without
requirement of mixing graphic with text), such symbols would
be used more frequently?</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:#0070c0">Most
frequently, labels contains two symbols: one for foil (or
similar package, so plastic - from Unicode), and second is
for label (mainly paper - outside Unicode).</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:#0070c0">Next
week I can collect some product packages/labels photos. But
still, I would not create glyphs…</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>See above wrt glyphs.</p>
<p>Visual attestation is key. And for the regulatory documents, any
passage that you think is important to reviewers must be excerpted
(with a link to its source). The proposal must be readable without
accessing the references.<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:242a8e1ef57733718a4c2acb831e36cb@mail.gmail.com">
<div class="WordSection1">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre><span style="color:#1f497d"> </span></pre>
<pre><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></pre>
<pre>I thing best solution would be only "triangle" with digits, no abbreviation</pre>
<pre>(it can be added using normal letters). And best of best, as "combining</pre>
<pre>recycling triangle", if such combining is possible (probably it is not</pre>
<pre>possible).</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>Finally, you need to address the issue of what should be
encoded in plain text.</p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:#0070c0">Two
digits number inside recycling triangle. Not 'description' -
although description (e.g. ALU) is also standarized by law,
and is same for all EU countries (language independent), it
can be easily added below triangle (as text in line below
triangle). </span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:#0070c0">Currently,
Unicode contains only recycling plastics; so it seems like
half-way. If none symbols would exists in Unicode, it would
be OK. But if some already exists, why not all recycling
symbols defined by law, and only plastic?</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Difference in regulatory body, perhaps? The first sub-set was
standardized in the US first ?<br>
</p>
<p>Never mind that, just give a clear description of the regulatory
environment (today), how stable it has been (how long) and what it
covers - then provide evidence that people are creating *text*
with these symbols. Traffic signs are also regulated, but
generally, they are not used in text.</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:242a8e1ef57733718a4c2acb831e36cb@mail.gmail.com">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:#0070c0"> </span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:#0070c0"> </span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:#0070c0">I
would also like to add all symbols from ISO 7000 (IEC
60417), <a
href="https://www.iso.org/obp/ui#iso:pub:PUB400008:en"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.iso.org/obp/ui#iso:pub:PUB400008:en</a>
, as they are created for use in user manuals, and all user
interface (physical as e.g. buttons, controls, or display),
etc.. If you check your's car manual, you will find many
symbols from this standard in it :) But this is another
story.</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Again, you will need to demonstrate that they are used in a way
that isn't the same as just putting an image into running text.<br>
</p>
<p>And some UI symbols have been encoded, but mainly because they
are so widely used and not limited to user manuals.</p>
<p>Remember: evidence for use in text - preferably widely used.</p>
<p>Pick any subset that you can get good evidence for, and if it's a
somewhat logical subset, ask for that. If you try to go for all,
you'll never get there.<br>
</p>
<p>A./<br>
</p>
</body>
</html>