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<div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">></span><span style="font-family: Inter, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, "Segoe UI Emoji", "Segoe UI Symbol", "Apple Color Emoji"; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(44, 47, 69); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">In
my opinion, those symbols do not have an actual fundamental typographical distinction, but a superficial one based on the emoji ideology, as in plain text it doesn't matter whether a character is referred to as an emoji or not. If every single Unicode character
was referred to as an emoji, that wouldn't matter to plain text,</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">As you said, this is your opinion; it is not objective fact.</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Because the emoji characters are encoded distinctly from corresponding, similar non-emoji characters, then by definition they are distinct in plain text. What you are debating here is whether there was a
<i>need</i> for them to be distinguished in plain text. </span>Your opinion evidently is that there is not a need. </div>
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However, major vendors long ago provided convincing evidence to UTC that they do have such a need. That is why UTC not only approved the proposal in L2/23-252 to encode separate emoji character but also had specifically asked for that proposal to be written.</div>
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Peter</div>
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<b>From: </b>Unicode <unicode-bounces@corp.unicode.org> on behalf of piotrunio-2004@wp.pl via Unicode <unicode@corp.unicode.org><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, January 21, 2025 at 1:08 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>unicode <unicode@corp.unicode.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Unicode fundamental character identity<br>
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<div class="gwp2545549a_gwp2545549a_gwp2545549a_gwp2545549ab">In <a href="https://www.unicode.org/L2/L-curdoc.htm" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" shash="saGErts1nnG4yLjWSDuTMAzNo4xNLyqYEgCa55gNL1FnIcc+eMfy59s9qORgbvz3kDJABM4SENb1saFURtnAp4XhrQcxgSuIfh6UsJlLd7Hk69d7OVX3e+XOcAwYlw36SHniZkNxTuksh7uhkYUErnv3jnHvKNCDsUJ0NFT2viw=" originalsrc="https://www.unicode.org/L2/L-curdoc.htm" data-outlook-id="4a388dbf-3f05-4347-91de-3ea7dd84ee08" style="margin: 0px;">
UTC Document Register 2025 (unicode.org)</a>, I have submitted a new proposal which is
<span style="font-family: Arial, Geneva, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; color: rgb(48, 48, 255);">
<a href="https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2025/25037-legacy-box-drawing-disunification.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" shash="NHhnCPLDEvWWYYVfNg2BGTP2MjZNpjeUdBFbDP+ndGVbh3FmYDoHqnd/E1TJGVimuIx0yzIQa+9459TiYuWVZQFyr28o+qoHPZiHCx1K27ZKPPwAtDGO68YNT8oSzESg9z+D4XIzBZSKymgxC6KTxSOHn/j72nwgZ+AsrGzBTfo=" originalsrc="https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2025/25037-legacy-box-drawing-disunification.pdf" data-outlook-id="6d2046a6-3c87-4e8a-9a99-f3f1faeecbc7" style="color: rgb(48, 48, 255); text-decoration: none; margin: 0px; text-align: left;">L2/25-037</a></span>.
However, when it came time for <span style="font-family: Arial, Geneva, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; color: rgb(48, 48, 255);">
<a href="https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2025/25010-script-wg-report.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" shash="vNlasIRQoB20qeY92flTJIipNoPFkfqCGJYbu8uZw8RkZPquaFiS/gnU9mMmEw56mFx3MF0DDvssjEeIYH/6muQ7YvkMZgSk3q1BddKNEzR0gJq2Q4eHQtnQkfMxji3WhBHIPaKhG3ypOxu5hebX238uspeqwe1r5DxiXs7hBRQ=" originalsrc="https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2025/25010-script-wg-report.pdf" data-outlook-id="a6a8caeb-0d41-45b1-acb5-0ea4c3b85be2" style="color: rgb(48, 48, 255); text-decoration: none; margin: 0px; text-align: left;">L2/25-010</a></span> to
review it, they concluded that supposedly do not constitute differences in plain text and that the issues can be solved by using appropriate fonts.</div>
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In case of the HP 264x character set, the two characters are clearly shown to have distinct plain text usage and source character set encoding. There have already been countless precedents for distinct encodings within the same legacy codepage resulting in
distinct Unicode encodings. This cannot be solved by using appropriate fonts as they are two different characters from the same character set, and therefore the font would have to include both characters in order to correctly represent their HP 264x usage.</div>
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In case of PETSCII and Apple II character set, the character identities of box drawings are fundamentally different than that of 1÷8 blocks. This is because the edge box drawings are based on strokes and are therefore dependent on the font weight, whereas the
1÷8 blocks are tied to a specific proportion of the bounding box. The fact that some of the mappings to 1÷8 blocks actually have thickness equivalent to 1÷4 bounding box in C64 or 1÷7 bounding box horizontally in Apple II indicates that the mapping to 1÷8
blocks does not correctly represent the fundamental character identity, and therefore this also cannot be solved by using appropriate fonts because 1÷8 blocks cannot possibly be made consistent with stems of other thickness than 1÷8 of bounding box.</div>
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Now let's contrast that with the proposal<span style="font-family: Inter, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, "Segoe UI Emoji", "Segoe UI Symbol", "Apple Color Emoji"; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(44, 47, 69); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> </span><span style="font-family: Arial, Geneva, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; color: rgb(48, 48, 255); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><a href="https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2023/23252-legacy-disunification.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" shash="BaLAXv+Vnd40ZzvemLNo5XyrEZ/BJ6MvGZHBhygIHxSINf5ovixZmZ8dj2WvaLZKalLX7nyvkKImjWe/XWKql0MCkpy69aBRq8h7azaNov2y5otguhThb+F/98NLhMIAT6wGTRkXBl6U+SALjD8FfLNM9pH21fxf7ixeictbstk=" originalsrc="https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2023/23252-legacy-disunification.pdf" data-outlook-id="af6635c1-ad00-4e5a-845b-209eb536ff35" style="color: rgb(48, 48, 255); text-decoration: none; margin: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-align: left;">L2/23-252</a></span><span style="font-family: Inter, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, "Segoe UI Emoji", "Segoe UI Symbol", "Apple Color Emoji"; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(44, 47, 69); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> for
disunifying symbols from emoji, that supposedly got accepted for Unicode 17.0. In my opinion, those symbols do not have an actual fundamental typographical distinction, but a superficial one based on the emoji ideology, as in plain text it doesn't matter whether
a character is referred to as an emoji or not. If every single Unicode character was referred to as an emoji, that wouldn't matter to plain text, let alone semigraphical text. I'm not demanding that L2/23-252 be cancelled, but I'm astonished as to how emoji
ideology gets the distinction precedence over the actual typographical distinction of stem weight versus 1÷8 bounding box.</span></div>
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<div class="ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message skipProofing">So, deep down, what please is the Unicode fundamental character identity that allows characters to be considered distinct just because they are identified as emoji, but also falsely unifies strokes
to exact proportion of 1÷8 bounding box despite evident counter examples?</div>
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