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<p>There are two arguments that would prevent either a new code
point or a variation sequence from being a complete solution.</p>
<p>One is the case of monospaced fonts, were most likely neither
would result in something that's wider than a standard cell.
(Although some people design fonts that are only "mostly"
monospaced).<br>
<br>
While we are at the monospaced fonts, they don't work well with
inserted spaces, as the gaps are already present. In fact it's
clear that the CoMS is fairly wedded to ensuring that you get the
same effect as typing three dots on a typewriter...<br>
<br>
Typewriters and monospaced fonts would get the desired effect
automatically also for adjacent punctuation.</p>
<p>It is only when dealing with variable width fonts that one would
need to manually add spaces in order to achieve the typewritten
appearance.</p>
<p>It would seem in this light, that our discussion of Ellipsis (p.
277 in 15.0) is incomplete.</p>
<p>Because, following your argument, we would argue that the
encoding of an ellipsis as a sequence of alternating U+002E with
NBSP or NNBSP is something we recommend (based on the desired
spacing) even when, semantically, the sequence is fully an
equivalent of what is otherwise encoded by the ellipsis.</p>
<p>I would suggest changing the following sentence to better map out
the conventions.</p>
<p>"<span style="left: 8.33%; top: 70.44%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;
transform: scaleX(0.895992);" role="presentation" dir="ltr">For
example, in a monowidth font, a sequence of three</span><span
style="left: 71.16%; top: 70.44%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;"
role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="left: 71.6%;
top: 70.44%; font-size: calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px);
font-family: sans-serif; transform: scaleX(0.861486);"
role="presentation" dir="ltr">full stops</span><span
style="left: 79.44%; top: 70.44%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;"
role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="left:
79.88%; top: 70.44%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;
transform: scaleX(0.939057);" role="presentation" dir="ltr">will
be wider</span><br role="presentation">
<span style="left: 8.33%; top: 72.4%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;
transform: scaleX(0.919634);" role="presentation" dir="ltr">than
the</span><span style="left: 16%; top: 72.4%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;"
role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="left:
16.53%; top: 72.4%; font-size: calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px);
font-family: sans-serif; transform: scaleX(0.909139);"
role="presentation" dir="ltr">horizontal <span class="highlight
appended">ellip</span>sis</span><span style="left: 32.49%;
top: 72.4%; font-size: calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px);
font-family: sans-serif; transform: scaleX(0.938399);"
role="presentation" dir="ltr">, but in a typical proportional
font, a</span><span style="left: 66.17%; top: 72.4%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;"
role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="left: 66.7%;
top: 72.4%; font-size: calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px);
font-family: sans-serif; transform: scaleX(0.902173);"
role="presentation" dir="ltr">full stop</span><span style="left:
73.86%; top: 72.4%; font-size: calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px);
font-family: sans-serif;" role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span
style="left: 74.39%; top: 72.4%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;
transform: scaleX(0.916641);" role="presentation" dir="ltr">is
very narrow and</span><br role="presentation">
<span style="left: 8.33%; top: 74.36%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;
transform: scaleX(0.903185);" role="presentation" dir="ltr">a
sequence of three of them will be more tightly spaced than the
dots in</span><span style="left: 74.1%; top: 74.36%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;"
role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="left:
74.61%; top: 74.36%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;
transform: scaleX(0.908942);" role="presentation" dir="ltr">horizontal
<span class="highlight appended">ellip</span>sis</span><span
style="left: 90.57%; top: 74.36%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;"
role="presentation" dir="ltr">.</span>"</p>
<p><break para></p>
<p><span style="left: 8.33%; top: 70.44%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;
transform: scaleX(0.895992);" role="presentation" dir="ltr">In a
monowidth font, a sequence of three</span><span style="left:
71.16%; top: 70.44%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;"
role="presentation" dir="ltr"> /</span><span style="left: 71.6%;
top: 70.44%; font-size: calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px);
font-family: sans-serif; transform: scaleX(0.861486);"
role="presentation" dir="ltr">full stops/</span><span
style="left: 79.44%; top: 70.44%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;"
role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="left:
79.88%; top: 70.44%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;
transform: scaleX(0.939057);" role="presentation" dir="ltr">will
be wider</span><br role="presentation">
<span style="left: 8.33%; top: 72.4%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;
transform: scaleX(0.919634);" role="presentation" dir="ltr">than
/</span><span style="left: 16.53%; top: 72.4%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;
transform: scaleX(0.909139);" role="presentation" dir="ltr">horizontal
<span class="highlight appended">ellip</span>sis/</span><span
style="left: 32.49%; top: 72.4%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;
transform: scaleX(0.938399);" role="presentation" dir="ltr">,
and may be the appropriate when following style<br>
guides that require more widely spaced dots. In this case, the
spacing between the<br>
last dot and following punctuation would be as expected.<br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="left: 32.49%; top: 72.4%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;
transform: scaleX(0.938399);" role="presentation" dir="ltr">In
contrast, for typical proportional font, a</span><span
style="left: 66.17%; top: 72.4%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;"
role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="left: 66.7%;
top: 72.4%; font-size: calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px);
font-family: sans-serif; transform: scaleX(0.902173);"
role="presentation" dir="ltr">/full stop/</span><span
style="left: 73.86%; top: 72.4%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;"
role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="left:
74.39%; top: 72.4%; font-size: calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px);
font-family: sans-serif; transform: scaleX(0.916641);"
role="presentation" dir="ltr">is very narrow and</span><br
role="presentation">
<span style="left: 8.33%; top: 74.36%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;
transform: scaleX(0.903185);" role="presentation" dir="ltr">a
sequence of three of them will be more tightly spaced than the
dots in</span><span style="left: 74.1%; top: 74.36%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;"
role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="left:
74.61%; top: 74.36%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;
transform: scaleX(0.908942);" role="presentation" dir="ltr">/horizontal
<span class="highlight appended">ellip</span>sis/</span><span
style="left: 90.57%; top: 74.36%; font-size:
calc(var(--scale-factor)*9.96px); font-family: sans-serif;"
role="presentation" dir="ltr">.<br>
When following style guided calling for more widely spaced dots,
established<br>
practice calls for separating the dots (and any surrounding
punctuation) by<br>
either a NBSP or NNBSP.<br>
</span></p>
<p><continue with the para starting with "Conventions", although
I would prefer calling them "Notational conventions" to
distinguish them even more from conventions expressed in
presentational style guides></p>
<p>A./<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/17/2023 3:37 PM, Ken Whistler via
Unicode wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:163e55a1-4734-1093-6d18-cc9248d339d4@sonic.net">Asmus,
<br>
<br>
I'm gonna disagree. Adding a variation sequence would just confuse
existing practice, and wouldn't deal with the edge cases where the
spaced-out ellipses bump into other punctuation. See a more
nuanced discussion of the issue at:
<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://cmosshoptalk.com/2019/07/30/dot-dot-dot-a-closer-look-at-the-ellipsis/">https://cmosshoptalk.com/2019/07/30/dot-dot-dot-a-closer-look-at-the-ellipsis/</a>
<br>
<br>
Basically, an ellipsis is an ellipsis is an ellipsis, sure, but
when one gets to concerns about exact appearance in a publication,
that becomes a copyedit issue, and standard practice is simply to
insert the NBSP (or NNBSP, depending on preference) to space dots
out to match the spec and prevent unwanted line breaks. It may be
a bit of a PITA for somebody who uses ellipses in text to have to
insert NBSP in some instances to follow the style guide, but as a
copyedit issue, that basically falls into the same category, in my
reckoning, as worrying about whether the periods are inside or
outside of the quotation marks, for example.
<br>
<br>
One should not assume that plain text poured into a text renderer
is automatically going to follow every last detail of a style
guide such as CMOS. Preparation for publication assumes markup for
styling, of course, but may also require specialized handling for
hyphenation (or prevention thereof) *and* attention to detail of
spacing that might not be entirely handled automatically by a
generic renderer.
<br>
<br>
So I'm not in favor of getting variation selectors involved here
as well, which would likely just introduce more distinctions that
wouldn't always work as expected but would likely require more
hacky overrides in edge cases if used.
<br>
<br>
--Ken
<br>
<br>
On 4/17/2023 1:56 PM, Asmus Freytag via Unicode wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Given the facts as stated, the conclusion
would be that this should be proposed for a variation sequence.
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
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