<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">I know. The question is who. <br><br><div dir="ltr">Michael Everson<div>http://evertype.com</div></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On 16 Sep 2021, at 02:55, Asmus Freytag via Unicode <unicode@corp.unicode.org> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
  
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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Somebody on "team Klingon" would have
      to start a dialog with the rights holders; perhaps they would
      welcome getting the script encoded?</div>
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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">That someone better speak legalese or
      work with someone who does, so such a request doesn't get turned
      down before they understand what this is about and also so that
      anything received will be acceptable to people watching out for IP
      encumbrance on the standard.</div>
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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">A./<br>
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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/15/2021 6:10 PM, Michael Everson
      via Unicode wrote:<br>
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      I agree with Mark Davis. I am often asked about moving forward
      with Klingon, and all I can say is that I have not found a way to
      get an answer to the right question. <br>
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      <div dir="ltr">Michael Everson
        <div><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://evertype.com">http://evertype.com</a></div>
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        <blockquote type="cite">On 16 Sep 2021, at 00:23, Mark Davis ☕️
          via Unicode <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:unicode@corp.unicode.org"><unicode@corp.unicode.org></a> wrote:<br>
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            <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times new
              roman,serif">> <span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">As I
                already noted, this imagined issue of "dignity" is
                offensive beyond belief from a group that's supposedly
                culturally neutral. </span></div>
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            <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times new
              roman,serif">Let's be very clear. This is an open list
              where most of the people on the list are simply expressing
              their opinions. These opinions are too often pure
              speculation that simply builds on other speculation voiced
              on this list. With little or no factual foundation.</div>
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            <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times new
              roman,serif">This "dignity" explanation is of that sort. I
              was around during the discussions, and there was never any
              mention of "dignity" as being a factor. The principal
              reason for not progressing Klingon was in fact IP
              complications. </div>
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            <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times new
              roman,serif">And those are still a barrier: there is no
              point in even starting to consider the Klingon script
              unless and until the IP problem is completely resolved.</div>
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                                    <div style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0px;margin-left:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-right:0px">Mark</div>
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            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Sep 15, 2021 at
              1:43 PM Mark E. Shoulson via Unicode <<a href="mailto:unicode@corp.unicode.org" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">unicode@corp.unicode.org</a>>
              wrote:<br>
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                <div>On 9/15/21 3:17 PM, Doug Ewell via Unicode wrote: </div>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <pre>It seems fairly clear by now that the real blocking issue is the perception, or reaction to it, that encoding Klingon would be undignified to Unicode.</pre>
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                <p>And Asmus adds:</p>
                <p> </p>
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                  <p><font face="Candara">Well, I didn't know that
                      Unicode had "being high-brow" among its
                      principles.</font></p>
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                <p>Indeed.  As I already noted, this imagined issue of
                  "dignity" is offensive beyond belief from a group
                  that's supposedly culturally neutral.  If you took the
                  sentence "encoding Klingon would be undignified to
                  Unicode" and replaced "Klingon" with, say "Adlam" or
                  "Yezidi" or "Mandombe", would anyone hesitate to call
                  that bigoted and unworthy of Unicode?  "We shouldn't
                  encode X languages because only Y people speak them
                  and we don't want to be associated with them."  Would
                  it be okay to replace X="African" and
                  Y="dark-skinned"?  Then how is it okay to have X="Star
                  Trek" and Y="geeks"?  Would you let some people's
                  disapproval of Yezidis stop you from encoding Yezidi? 
                  Then why do you care about people's disapproval of
                  Klingon-speakers?</p>
                <p>This horse is dead, and I need to stop beating it. 
                  But so long as this somehow is actually allowed to
                  remain an issue, there's something very seriously
                  wrong with how decisions are made.</p>
                <p>Is Klingon literature not high-brow enough?  How much
                  research was done to make that decision, how much did
                  the Unicode representatives read, and of what?  And
                  how much research did they do to confirm the
                  worthiness of Mro?</p>
                <p>~mark<br>
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