<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">I know. The question is who. <br><br><div dir="ltr">Michael Everson<div>http://evertype.com</div></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On 16 Sep 2021, at 02:55, Asmus Freytag via Unicode <unicode@corp.unicode.org> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Somebody on "team Klingon" would have
to start a dialog with the rights holders; perhaps they would
welcome getting the script encoded?</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">That someone better speak legalese or
work with someone who does, so such a request doesn't get turned
down before they understand what this is about and also so that
anything received will be acceptable to people watching out for IP
encumbrance on the standard.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">A./<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/15/2021 6:10 PM, Michael Everson
via Unicode wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:7C32FBD9-4E80-4457-B745-63FFA25F5CE5@evertype.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
I agree with Mark Davis. I am often asked about moving forward
with Klingon, and all I can say is that I have not found a way to
get an answer to the right question. <br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Michael Everson
<div><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://evertype.com">http://evertype.com</a></div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On 16 Sep 2021, at 00:23, Mark Davis ☕️
via Unicode <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:unicode@corp.unicode.org"><unicode@corp.unicode.org></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times new
roman,serif">> <span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">As I
already noted, this imagined issue of "dignity" is
offensive beyond belief from a group that's supposedly
culturally neutral. </span></div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times new
roman,serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times new
roman,serif">Let's be very clear. This is an open list
where most of the people on the list are simply expressing
their opinions. These opinions are too often pure
speculation that simply builds on other speculation voiced
on this list. With little or no factual foundation.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times new
roman,serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times new
roman,serif">This "dignity" explanation is of that sort. I
was around during the discussions, and there was never any
mention of "dignity" as being a factor. The principal
reason for not progressing Klingon was in fact IP
complications. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times new
roman,serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times new
roman,serif">And those are still a barrier: there is no
point in even starting to consider the Klingon script
unless and until the IP problem is completely resolved.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times new
roman,serif"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><font face="'times new
roman', serif">
<div style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0px;margin-left:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-right:0px">Mark</div>
</font>
<div>
<div><font face="'times new roman',
serif"><i><span style="font-style:normal"></span></i></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Sep 15, 2021 at
1:43 PM Mark E. Shoulson via Unicode <<a href="mailto:unicode@corp.unicode.org" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">unicode@corp.unicode.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>On 9/15/21 3:17 PM, Doug Ewell via Unicode wrote: </div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>It seems fairly clear by now that the real blocking issue is the perception, or reaction to it, that encoding Klingon would be undignified to Unicode.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>And Asmus adds:</p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p><font face="Candara">Well, I didn't know that
Unicode had "being high-brow" among its
principles.</font></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Indeed. As I already noted, this imagined issue of
"dignity" is offensive beyond belief from a group
that's supposedly culturally neutral. If you took the
sentence "encoding Klingon would be undignified to
Unicode" and replaced "Klingon" with, say "Adlam" or
"Yezidi" or "Mandombe", would anyone hesitate to call
that bigoted and unworthy of Unicode? "We shouldn't
encode X languages because only Y people speak them
and we don't want to be associated with them." Would
it be okay to replace X="African" and
Y="dark-skinned"? Then how is it okay to have X="Star
Trek" and Y="geeks"? Would you let some people's
disapproval of Yezidis stop you from encoding Yezidi?
Then why do you care about people's disapproval of
Klingon-speakers?</p>
<p>This horse is dead, and I need to stop beating it.
But so long as this somehow is actually allowed to
remain an issue, there's something very seriously
wrong with how decisions are made.</p>
<p>Is Klingon literature not high-brow enough? How much
research was done to make that decision, how much did
the Unicode representatives read, and of what? And
how much research did they do to confirm the
worthiness of Mro?</p>
<p>~mark<br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
</div></blockquote></body></html>