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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/15/2021 7:16 PM, Michael Everson
via Unicode wrote:<br>
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I know. The question is who. <br>
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<p>Nobody with legal expertise a fan of Klingon? Can't be. <br>
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<p>A./</p>
<p>PS: I'm not on "team Klingon", just in case someone is getting
confused here.<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Michael Everson
<div><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://evertype.com">http://evertype.com</a></div>
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<blockquote type="cite">On 16 Sep 2021, at 02:55, Asmus Freytag
via Unicode <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:unicode@corp.unicode.org"><unicode@corp.unicode.org></a> wrote:<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Somebody on "team Klingon" would
have to start a dialog with the rights holders; perhaps they
would welcome getting the script encoded?</div>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">That someone better speak
legalese or work with someone who does, so such a request
doesn't get turned down before they understand what this is
about and also so that anything received will be acceptable
to people watching out for IP encumbrance on the standard.</div>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">A./<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/15/2021 6:10 PM, Michael
Everson via Unicode wrote:<br>
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I agree with Mark Davis. I am often asked about moving
forward with Klingon, and all I can say is that I have not
found a way to get an answer to the right question. <br>
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<div dir="ltr">Michael Everson
<div><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://evertype.com" moz-do-not-send="true">http://evertype.com</a></div>
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<blockquote type="cite">On 16 Sep 2021, at 00:23, Mark
Davis ☕️ via Unicode <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:unicode@corp.unicode.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><unicode@corp.unicode.org></a>
wrote:<br>
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times
new roman,serif">> <span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">As
I already noted, this imagined issue of "dignity"
is offensive beyond belief from a group that's
supposedly culturally neutral. </span></div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times
new roman,serif"><br>
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times
new roman,serif">Let's be very clear. This is an
open list where most of the people on the list are
simply expressing their opinions. These opinions are
too often pure speculation that simply builds on
other speculation voiced on this list. With little
or no factual foundation.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times
new roman,serif"><br>
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times
new roman,serif">This "dignity" explanation is of
that sort. I was around during the discussions, and
there was never any mention of "dignity" as being a
factor. The principal reason for not progressing
Klingon was in fact IP complications. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times
new roman,serif"><br>
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times
new roman,serif">And those are still a barrier:
there is no point in even starting to consider the
Klingon script unless and until the IP problem is
completely resolved.</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Sep 15, 2021
at 1:43 PM Mark E. Shoulson via Unicode <<a
href="mailto:unicode@corp.unicode.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">unicode@corp.unicode.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
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<div>On 9/15/21 3:17 PM, Doug Ewell via Unicode
wrote: </div>
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<pre>It seems fairly clear by now that the real blocking issue is the perception, or reaction to it, that encoding Klingon would be undignified to Unicode.</pre>
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<p>And Asmus adds:</p>
<p> </p>
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<p><font face="Candara">Well, I didn't know that
Unicode had "being high-brow" among its
principles.</font></p>
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<p>Indeed. As I already noted, this imagined
issue of "dignity" is offensive beyond belief
from a group that's supposedly culturally
neutral. If you took the sentence "encoding
Klingon would be undignified to Unicode" and
replaced "Klingon" with, say "Adlam" or "Yezidi"
or "Mandombe", would anyone hesitate to call
that bigoted and unworthy of Unicode? "We
shouldn't encode X languages because only Y
people speak them and we don't want to be
associated with them." Would it be okay to
replace X="African" and Y="dark-skinned"? Then
how is it okay to have X="Star Trek" and
Y="geeks"? Would you let some people's
disapproval of Yezidis stop you from encoding
Yezidi? Then why do you care about people's
disapproval of Klingon-speakers?</p>
<p>This horse is dead, and I need to stop beating
it. But so long as this somehow is actually
allowed to remain an issue, there's something
very seriously wrong with how decisions are
made.</p>
<p>Is Klingon literature not high-brow enough?
How much research was done to make that
decision, how much did the Unicode
representatives read, and of what? And how much
research did they do to confirm the worthiness
of Mro?</p>
<p>~mark<br>
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