<html style="direction: ltr;">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<style id="bidiui-paragraph-margins" type="text/css">body p { margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt; } </style>
</head>
<body bidimailui-charset-is-forced="true" style="direction: ltr;">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/24/20 10:50 AM, Richard
Wordingham via Unicode wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:20201224155029.39e3f212@JRWUBU2">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 16:59:59 -0700
Doug Ewell via Unicode <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:unicode@unicode.org"><unicode@unicode.org></a> wrote:
</pre>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">The last sentence is simply appalling:
1. Hebrew numerals are written with the most significant element on the
right. For Unicode, what is significant is that as the elements
are letters, they follow the normal presentation rule for sequences of
Hebrew letters.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I think this might simply be a misunderstanding.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>In Modern Hebrew, numbers are commonly written with Arabic
numerals (I mean the kind we in the west use, not the
"ARABIC-INDIC DIGIT"s of Unicode). And they are thus used in the
same way as we use digits: the most significant on the left, and
encoded first (even though the text is RTL). I believe the same
is true in Arabic with the Arabic-Indic digits.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Now, Hebrew *also* has a tradition of representing numbers with
letters (similar too and apparently based on the one in use in
Greek). This is not a place-value system, as each letter has its
value independently of where it is placed, though there is a
normal, proper order to present them. In *this* system, yes, the
most significant (largest-valued) letter is normally placed on the
right, and encoded first, as is normal in an RTL stream. I think
the claim of "in Hebrew and Arabic, [] numerals are laid out in
left-to-right order, even though the overall text direction is
right to left." is referring to the place-value system of Arabic
numerals, not the letter-value system.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>(Now, it is, to me at least, an open question as to whether or
not Arabic numerals should be seen as being "most-significant
first, left to right," or "least-significant first, right to
left." I would think very likely many of the early Arabic users
considered it to be the latter, not the former, and in fact I've
even seen some textual evidence describing it just that way. But
the history of encoding has long ago settled that, and the
convention is firmly in the camp of "most-significant, LTR." And,
of course, the system actually originated in India, where people
were writing LTR, so it stands to reason that they considered
their digits to be LTR as well.)<br>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:20201224155029.39e3f212@JRWUBU2">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">2. I would expect the components of Arabic letter numerals to follow
the same rules as when the elements are being used as letters. I can
find examples of both biggest first and smallest first.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes, "letter numerals"; I think the text was referring to
place-value digit numerals. </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>~mark<br>
</p>
<br>
<p><br>
</p>
</body>
</html>