German sharp S uppercase mapping

[Daniel Buncic]

Am 26.11.2024 um 22:18 schrieb Asmus Freytag via Unicode:
> The mistake is to assume that people supporting text processing
> should be using the default table to begin with.

Dear Asmus, dear all,

Thank you very much, I totally see the point now.  That’s the mistake I 
also made.  So the casing tables are clearly not the place where the 
change should be reflected.

I am unfamiliar with the CLDR.  But I looked at 
https://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/46/summary/de.html and saw that 
capital ẞ does not occur among the capital letters in line 3.  But I’m 
not sure that this is where it should occur.  I could not find any list 
of casing pairs.  Does that exist somewhere?  Or is the place where 
capital ẞ would have to be added?

Am 27.11.2024 um 01:16 schrieb Kent Karlsson via Unicode:
>> There's one more wrinkle. Because the sharp S is not natively
>> used outside German,
>> 
> Did you mean “outside Germany”? It is not used for German in 
> Switzerland. But, IIUC, used for Colognian/Kölsch with the 
> uppercase/lowercase mapping. Or, at least, so I was told several 
> years ago.

No, “outside German” is perfectly correct.  The ß is used in German in 
Austria, Luxembourg, Belgium, and Italy, where it is an official, 
co-official, or regionally official language, as well as by German 
speakers in other countries.  Kölsch is a German dialect that, like some 
other German dialects, happens to have its own ISO code and locale, but 
I doubt that even its speakers (proud as they are of their dialect) 
would describe it as “outside German”.  And that is precisely why it 
uses the German alphabet, including ß.

Am 26.11.2024 um 23:13 schrieb Ivan Panchenko via Unicode:
> I still disagree.

Yes, if this was just any text, you could interpret the sentence the way 
you do.  But the writers of these official rules are perfectly aware 
that “auch” (‘also’) in a text like this is a technical term.  They 
would have formulated it differently if they had meant the two 
alternatives to be equal.  But they literally turned around the wording 
of the previous version with “neben … auch … möglich” (‘in addition to … 
also … possible’), which you agree expressed a preference for SS.  And 
there is good reason to prefer capital ẞ now that it is technically 
available in most environments, with all the problems SS causes in 
personal names and in general with turning all-caps text back into 
normal lowercase text (how do you tease apart SS → ß and SS → ss?).

All the best,

Daniel

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Prof. Dr. Daniel Bunčić
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