From wjgo_10009 at btinternet.com Wed Jul 7 10:24:42 2021 From: wjgo_10009 at btinternet.com (William_J_G Overington) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 16:24:42 +0100 (BST) Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?How=E2=80=99s_your_Inuktitut=3F?= Message-ID: <1ee5b528.10f59.17a81923d65.Webtop.118@btinternet.com> Yesterday evening I received a private email with the title How?s your Inuktitut? I have permission from the sender to mention the email and to quote its content here. The email contained the following, and nothing else. ???? ?????? ???? ??????????? ????????? ??? ??????, ???? ?????????? ???????????? ????? ????????????????! All I knew about Inuktitut at that time was that it is to do with Canada and that I remembered that it had been mentioned in the Unicode public mailing list and that someone had mentioned producing a font to support Inuktitut. I searched on the web and found the following. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/translator/blog/2021/01/27/inuktitut-is-now-available-in-microsoft-translator/ So I went to https://www.bing.com/translator and, using copy and paste from the email to Bing Translator, I obtained the following translation. > Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami celebrates Mary Simon, Canada's first > Aboriginal Governor General! I found the following. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Simon I decided to try to reply in Inuktitut as follows, using the Bing Translator. Thank you. That is very interesting. I got the following. ?????. ???? ?????????????. However, it is one thing to translate using machine translation from a language that I do not know into English, English being my native language, in the hope of getting an idea of the meaning, and I often do that, yet it is quite another thing to translate using machine translation from English into a language that I do not know, as I have no way to know if the translation is correct or uses an idiom wrongly. So I decided to then try to translate back to English. So I did a copy to the clipboard, then pasted as a new go into Bing Translator and got the following. Thank you. That's very good to hear. So, it had not round tripped exactly, but the message was fine so I replied to the sender of the email. Upon thinking of this today it occurred to me that the Inuktitut characters had all been displayed, there were no tofu boxes, so there seemed to be font support for Inuktitut on my computer. So I pasted the original message into WordPad to try to find out which font is being used. It appears to be named Gadugi. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/typography/font-list/gadugi As I have Windows 10 installed on my laptop computer, the font is available here. I have found this to be an interesting learning experience. William Overington Wednesday 7 July 2021 From pravin at zensoftech.co.in Wed Jul 7 11:23:51 2021 From: pravin at zensoftech.co.in (Pravin Jain) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 21:53:51 +0530 Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IEhvd+KAmXMgeW91ciBJbnVrdGl0dXQ/?= In-Reply-To: <1ee5b528.10f59.17a81923d65.Webtop.118@btinternet.com> References: <1ee5b528.10f59.17a81923d65.Webtop.118@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Hi, It is interesting to note that when I copy pasted from this email into gedit on my Linux machine, it was rendered perfectly. with no boxes. Seems to have a good support indeed. Pravin Jain On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 9:25 PM William_J_G Overington via Unicode wrote: > > Yesterday evening I received a private email with the title > > How?s your Inuktitut? > > I have permission from the sender to mention the email and to quote its > content here. > > The email contained the following, and nothing else. > > ???? ?????? ???? ??????????? ????????? ??? ??????, ???? ?????????? > ???????????? ????? ????????????????! > > All I knew about Inuktitut at that time was that it is to do with Canada > and that I remembered that it had been mentioned in the Unicode public > mailing list and that someone had mentioned producing a font to support > Inuktitut. > > I searched on the web and found the following. > > https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/translator/blog/2021/01/27/inuktitut-is-now-available-in-microsoft-translator/ > > So I went to > > https://www.bing.com/translator > > and, using copy and paste from the email to Bing Translator, I obtained > the following translation. > > > Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami celebrates Mary Simon, Canada's first > > Aboriginal Governor General! > > I found the following. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Simon > > I decided to try to reply in Inuktitut as follows, using the Bing > Translator. > > Thank you. That is very interesting. > > I got the following. > > ?????. ???? ?????????????. > > However, it is one thing to translate using machine translation from a > language that I do not know into English, English being my native > language, in the hope of getting an idea of the meaning, and I often do > that, yet it is quite another thing to translate using machine > translation from English into a language that I do not know, as I have > no way to know if the translation is correct or uses an idiom wrongly. > > So I decided to then try to translate back to English. > > So I did a copy to the clipboard, then pasted as a new go into Bing > Translator and got the following. > > Thank you. That's very good to hear. > > So, it had not round tripped exactly, but the message was fine so I > replied to the sender of the email. > > Upon thinking of this today it occurred to me that the Inuktitut > characters had all been displayed, there were no tofu boxes, so there > seemed to be font support for Inuktitut on my computer. > > So I pasted the original message into WordPad to try to find out which > font is being used. > > It appears to be named Gadugi. > > https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/typography/font-list/gadugi > > As I have Windows 10 installed on my laptop computer, the font is > available here. > > I have found this to be an interesting learning experience. > > William Overington > > Wednesday 7 July 2021 > > -- Pravin Jain (M)+91-9426054269 From rick at corp.unicode.org Thu Jul 8 14:47:04 2021 From: rick at corp.unicode.org (Rick McGowan) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2021 12:47:04 -0700 Subject: Unicode 14.0 beta period closing soon Message-ID: <926e9b78-1754-88d7-8c7c-1326b5780730@unicode.org> Hello everyone, This is a reminder that the Unicode 14.0 beta review period will be closing next week. http://www.unicode.org/versions/beta-14.0.0.html Components include the beta pages, code charts, and all open Public Review Issues for UAX, UTR, and UTS updates. Please see the general review page for links and instructions for submitting comments: https://www.unicode.org/review/ Regards, From hughperkins at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 16:08:19 2021 From: hughperkins at gmail.com (Hugh Perkins) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 17:08:19 -0400 Subject: Please provide green skin-color for emojis Message-ID: The new option to use one's own skin-color for emojis introduces its own issues I feel: different groups of people identify with different skin-colors, and so we are reminded of skin-color as an important differentiating factor. I'd really like the option to use a green skin-color for emojis, so that I am not forced to identify with one single specific skin-color. Please. Hugh From abrahamgross at disroot.org Wed Jul 28 17:25:52 2021 From: abrahamgross at disroot.org (abrahamgross at disroot.org) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 22:25:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Please provide green skin-color for emojis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9ea4d4a1-ec8c-4c59-9f23-a96be53e2e73@disroot.org> Thats what the yellow color is for From 747.neutron at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 21:37:31 2021 From: 747.neutron at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?V8OhbmcgWWlmw6Fu?=) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 11:37:31 +0900 Subject: Please provide green skin-color for emojis In-Reply-To: <9ea4d4a1-ec8c-4c59-9f23-a96be53e2e73@disroot.org> References: <9ea4d4a1-ec8c-4c59-9f23-a96be53e2e73@disroot.org> Message-ID: Blue (or purple) skin exists btw. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyria 2021?7?29?(?) 7:30 abrahamgross--- via Unicode : > > Thats what the yellow color is for From asmusf at ix.netcom.com Wed Jul 28 22:12:30 2021 From: asmusf at ix.netcom.com (Asmus Freytag) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 20:12:30 -0700 Subject: Please provide green skin-color for emojis In-Reply-To: References: <9ea4d4a1-ec8c-4c59-9f23-a96be53e2e73@disroot.org> Message-ID: <98a926cf-5524-670f-165d-b11c4120dff2@ix.netcom.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hughperkins at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 22:56:11 2021 From: hughperkins at gmail.com (Hugh Perkins) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 23:56:11 -0400 Subject: Please provide green skin-color for emojis In-Reply-To: <98a926cf-5524-670f-165d-b11c4120dff2@ix.netcom.com> References: <9ea4d4a1-ec8c-4c59-9f23-a96be53e2e73@disroot.org> <98a926cf-5524-670f-165d-b11c4120dff2@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: Yellow is not green. Blue and purple are not green. I've tried using blue thumbs-up emojis (and Facebook Messenger provides such emojis), but they look sterile, like a hospital. In many countries, green signals 'go', 'ok', I feel, so a green thumbs-up emoji conveys in both the shape (thumbs up), and the color (green), the idea that the emoji'd concept/idea/text is a good idea. On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 11:15 PM Asmus Freytag via Unicode wrote: > > OK - we learn something new. Again. > > A./ > > On 7/28/2021 7:37 PM, W?ng Yif?n via Unicode wrote: > > Blue (or purple) skin exists btw. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyria > > 2021?7?29?(?) 7:30 abrahamgross--- via Unicode : > > Thats what the yellow color is for > > From samantham at posteo.net Wed Jul 28 19:25:54 2021 From: samantham at posteo.net (Samantha McVey) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 00:25:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Please provide green skin-color for emojis In-Reply-To: <9ea4d4a1-ec8c-4c59-9f23-a96be53e2e73@disroot.org> References: <9ea4d4a1-ec8c-4c59-9f23-a96be53e2e73@disroot.org> Message-ID: The yellow color is not specified by Unicode. The non-skin tone emoji do not specify any skin color. From abrahamgross at disroot.org Wed Jul 28 23:52:18 2021 From: abrahamgross at disroot.org (abrahamgross at disroot.org) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 04:52:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Please provide green skin-color for emojis In-Reply-To: References: <9ea4d4a1-ec8c-4c59-9f23-a96be53e2e73@disroot.org> Message-ID: Exactly, if you look at emojipedia, ull see that some vedors use or have used other colors for emoji faces including pink, purple, red, and orange. 2021/07/29 ??0:33:26 Samantha McVey via Unicode : > The yellow color is not specified by Unicode. The non-skin tone emoji do not specify any skin color. From jameskass at code2001.com Thu Jul 29 01:40:34 2021 From: jameskass at code2001.com (James Kass) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 06:40:34 +0000 Subject: Please provide green skin-color for emojis In-Reply-To: References: <9ea4d4a1-ec8c-4c59-9f23-a96be53e2e73@disroot.org> <98a926cf-5524-670f-165d-b11c4120dff2@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: On 2021-07-29 3:56 AM, Hugh Perkins via Unicode wrote: > In many countries, green signals 'go', 'ok', I feel, so a green > thumbs-up emoji conveys in both the shape (thumbs up), and the color > (green), the idea that the emoji'd concept/idea/text is a good idea. A green thumb also conveys proficiency in horticulture. There are several businesses using the name "Green Thumbs Up" (they seem related to landscaping), so there are already logos and icons available supporting this concept. Even beyond private logos, "green thumb up" appears to be popular as clip art.? Many images exist: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=green+thumb+up&t=h_&ia=images&iax=images So it should already be possible to include "green thumb up" with text as an in-line graphic. From haberg-1 at telia.com Thu Jul 29 03:40:46 2021 From: haberg-1 at telia.com (=?utf-8?Q?Hans_=C3=85berg?=) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 10:40:46 +0200 Subject: Please provide green skin-color for emojis In-Reply-To: References: <9ea4d4a1-ec8c-4c59-9f23-a96be53e2e73@disroot.org> Message-ID: > On 29 Jul 2021, at 02:25, Samantha McVey via Unicode wrote: > > The yellow color is not specified by Unicode. The non-skin tone emoji do not specify any skin color. The font implementers are perhaps influenced by The Simpsons. From john.w.kennedy at gmail.com Thu Jul 29 09:08:02 2021 From: john.w.kennedy at gmail.com (John W Kennedy) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 10:08:02 -0400 Subject: Please provide green skin-color for emojis In-Reply-To: <423E0845-F20B-4E66-BF98-5CC738B943BE@gmail.com> References: <423E0845-F20B-4E66-BF98-5CC738B943BE@gmail.com> Message-ID: <25147BDC-4B7E-4742-ADE8-131516883C04@gmail.com> ?More likely by the very popular ?have a nice day? design used on posters, stickers, tee-shirts, and other ephemera of the 70s, which looked exactly like ?. -- John W. Kennedy "Compact is becoming contract, Man only earns and pays." -- Charles Williams. "Bors to Elayne: On the King's Coins" > On Jul 29, 2021, at 4:44 AM, Hans ?berg via Unicode wrote: > > ? >>> On 29 Jul 2021, at 02:25, Samantha McVey via Unicode wrote: >> >> The yellow color is not specified by Unicode. The non-skin tone emoji do not specify any skin color. > > The font implementers are perhaps influenced by The Simpsons. From johannes at bergerhausen.com Thu Jul 29 09:21:00 2021 From: johannes at bergerhausen.com (Johannes Bergerhausen) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 16:21:00 +0200 Subject: Please provide green skin-color for emojis In-Reply-To: <25147BDC-4B7E-4742-ADE8-131516883C04@gmail.com> References: <423E0845-F20B-4E66-BF98-5CC738B943BE@gmail.com> <25147BDC-4B7E-4742-ADE8-131516883C04@gmail.com> Message-ID: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Ball From wjgo_10009 at btinternet.com Thu Jul 29 13:57:55 2021 From: wjgo_10009 at btinternet.com (William_J_G Overington) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 19:57:55 +0100 (BST) Subject: Please provide green skin-color for emojis" Message-ID: <10b3e95.3ce16.17af3a15ac4.Webtop.113@btinternet.com> Here are links to three gif animations that I produced in the late 1990s. They feature Chloe and Phil, characters who have green faces. Their names are from the word 'chlorophyll', as they are green. http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ngo/cw000000.htm http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ngo/de000000.htm http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ngo/cpjs0001.htm William Overington Thursday 29 July 2021 From abrahamgross at disroot.org Thu Jul 29 14:41:53 2021 From: abrahamgross at disroot.org (abrahamgross at disroot.org) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 19:41:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Please provide green skin-color for emojis" In-Reply-To: <10b3e95.3ce16.17af3a15ac4.Webtop.113@btinternet.com> References: <10b3e95.3ce16.17af3a15ac4.Webtop.113@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Unicode already provides a way to have colored emojis. http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr51/#color Its just that fonts don't support it. but if colored people is important to you, then edit an open source emoji font and provide colorful people for anyone else interested From wjgo_10009 at btinternet.com Fri Jul 30 05:34:39 2021 From: wjgo_10009 at btinternet.com (William_J_G Overington) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 11:34:39 +0100 (BST) Subject: Please provide green skin-color for emojis" In-Reply-To: References: <10b3e95.3ce16.17af3a15ac4.Webtop.113@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <79f4d359.3e3f2.17af6faf358.Webtop.83@btinternet.com> Hi So, following two recent successful private initiatives to get astronauts into space, can we get green male emoji astronauts and green female emoji astronauts into space, maybe making a return trip via a geostationary satellite? Good fun to try, but there is a Unicode question underlying this suggestion. Can the ZWJ LARGE GREEN SQUARE sequence to get a green version be applied to an emoji sequence that already is a ZWJ sequence? So for green emoji astronauts, if they can be encoded, there would be five characters in the sequence for each of them. Yet where does the LARGE GREEN SQUARE character go in the sequence please? It seems to be that it could be third or fifth depending upon how one looks at it. If the astronaut sequence is regarded as a preset block, then the ZWJ LARGE GREEN SQUARE sequence is added at the end. If, however, the astronaut sequence is not regarded as a preset block, the ZWJ LARGE GREEN SQUARE sequence is characters 2 and 3 in the total sequence. Also, what rgb colour values for green? . If an rgb colour is specified now, then maybe just maybe everybody will do the same, but otherwise there would be various shades, possibly causing confusion during interchange. Would r=0, g=204, b=0 be a good choice? Best regards, William Overington Friday 30 July 2021 ------ Original Message ------ From: "abrahamgross--- via Unicode" To: unicode at corp.unicode.org Sent: Thursday, 2021 Jul 29 At 20:41 Subject: Re: Please provide green skin-color for emojis" Unicode already provides a way to have colored emojis. http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr51/#color Its just that fonts don't support it. but if colored people is important to you, then edit an open source emoji font and provide colorful people for anyone else interested -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abrahamgross at disroot.org Fri Jul 30 10:16:16 2021 From: abrahamgross at disroot.org (abrahamgross at disroot.org) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 15:16:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Please provide green skin-color for emojis" In-Reply-To: <79f4d359.3e3f2.17af6faf358.Webtop.83@btinternet.com> References: <10b3e95.3ce16.17af3a15ac4.Webtop.113@btinternet.com> <79f4d359.3e3f2.17af6faf358.Webtop.83@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <170812b0-3b19-428c-b595-01fd3c1936cb@disroot.org> The unicode document states ?The color of the resulting image may not be exactly the same as the color square.?, so I don't think your worries hold up. Besides, the exact color for any emoji you pick are different between different vendors, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jameskass at code2001.com Fri Jul 30 14:16:59 2021 From: jameskass at code2001.com (James Kass) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 19:16:59 +0000 Subject: Please provide green skin-color for emojis" In-Reply-To: <170812b0-3b19-428c-b595-01fd3c1936cb@disroot.org> References: <10b3e95.3ce16.17af3a15ac4.Webtop.113@btinternet.com> <79f4d359.3e3f2.17af6faf358.Webtop.83@btinternet.com> <170812b0-3b19-428c-b595-01fd3c1936cb@disroot.org> Message-ID: <37058e7d-9d46-5dab-b8bf-216920ac2b16@code2001.com> On 2021-07-30 3:16 PM, abrahamgross--- via Unicode wrote: > The unicode document states ?The color of the resulting image may not be exactly the same as the color square.?, so I don't think your worries hold up. Besides, the exact color for any emoji you pick are different between different vendors, > The Unicode document also shows the skin tone "emoji modifiers". Those modifiers don't use the ZWJ character. http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr51/#Emoji_Modifiers_Table These five modifiers are based on the six tones of the Fitzpatrick scale for dermatology, which lacks green and other interesting tones.? (Type 1, "pale white skin", was combined with Type 2, "white skin".) It seems unlikely that the Fitzpatrick scale would ever be expanded to include shades of green. As with the color squares, the document states that for these diversity emoji modifiers:? "The exact shades may vary between implementations". In order to fulfill Hugh Perkins' desire for a green skin tone modifier to be added to Unicode, somebody would have to submit a formal proposal. https://unicode.org/emoji/proposals.html One of the factors the Unicode Emoji Subcommittee uses to assess a proposal for inclusion is the expected usage of proposed characters or sequences.? So, who would be using the proposed green skin tone modifier character?? Although decomposition and putrefaction often result in a green skin tone, dead men don't text. From wjgo_10009 at btinternet.com Fri Jul 30 16:07:16 2021 From: wjgo_10009 at btinternet.com (William_J_G Overington) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 22:07:16 +0100 (BST) Subject: Please provide green skin-color for emojis" In-Reply-To: <170812b0-3b19-428c-b595-01fd3c1936cb@disroot.org> References: <10b3e95.3ce16.17af3a15ac4.Webtop.113@btinternet.com> <79f4d359.3e3f2.17af6faf358.Webtop.83@btinternet.com> <170812b0-3b19-428c-b595-01fd3c1936cb@disroot.org> Message-ID: <28375dd5.3dd0a.17af93e2281.Webtop.118@btinternet.com> Well, if a shade of green is chosen now, then it will save problems arising later. The following video is helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ldSVbXbjl4 It would be so easy to just agree a colour now. Interoperability across platforms is important. Returning to the encoding issue, how does one encode a green emoji astronaut, or is there no clarity in the rules and the question cannot be answered even by experts? William Overington Friday 30 July 2021 ------ Original Message ------ From: "abrahamgross--- via Unicode" To: unicode at corp.unicode.org Sent: Friday, 2021 Jul 30 At 16:16 Subject: Re: Please provide green skin-color for emojis" The unicode document states ?The color of the resulting image may not be exactly the same as the color square.?, so I don't think your worries hold up. Besides, the exact color for any emoji you pick are different between different vendors, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kent.b.karlsson at bahnhof.se Fri Jul 30 16:38:21 2021 From: kent.b.karlsson at bahnhof.se (Kent Karlsson) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 23:38:21 +0200 Subject: Please provide green skin-color for emojis" In-Reply-To: <37058e7d-9d46-5dab-b8bf-216920ac2b16@code2001.com> References: <10b3e95.3ce16.17af3a15ac4.Webtop.113@btinternet.com> <79f4d359.3e3f2.17af6faf358.Webtop.83@btinternet.com> <170812b0-3b19-428c-b595-01fd3c1936cb@disroot.org> <37058e7d-9d46-5dab-b8bf-216920ac2b16@code2001.com> Message-ID: www.99images.com/photos/tattoos/best-tattoos/green-face-tattoo-design-kD26o.jpg?v=1578484383 truetattoos.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/green-ink-horrible-lizard-face-tattoo-design.jpg (This does NOT mean that I support the proposal. And neither image is of me?) /K > 30 juli 2021 kl. 21:16 skrev James Kass via Unicode : > > > On 2021-07-30 3:16 PM, abrahamgross--- via Unicode wrote: >> The unicode document states ?The color of the resulting image may not be exactly the same as the color square.?, so I don't think your worries hold up. Besides, the exact color for any emoji you pick are different between different vendors, >> > The Unicode document also shows the skin tone "emoji modifiers". Those modifiers don't use the ZWJ character. > http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr51/#Emoji_Modifiers_Table > > These five modifiers are based on the six tones of the Fitzpatrick scale for dermatology, which lacks green and other interesting tones. (Type 1, "pale white skin", was combined with Type 2, "white skin".) > > It seems unlikely that the Fitzpatrick scale would ever be expanded to include shades of green. > > As with the color squares, the document states that for these diversity emoji modifiers: "The exact shades may vary between implementations". > > In order to fulfill Hugh Perkins' desire for a green skin tone modifier to be added to Unicode, somebody would have to submit a formal proposal. > https://unicode.org/emoji/proposals.html > > One of the factors the Unicode Emoji Subcommittee uses to assess a proposal for inclusion is the expected usage of proposed characters or sequences. So, who would be using the proposed green skin tone modifier character? Although decomposition and putrefaction often result in a green skin tone, dead men don't text. > > From wjgo_10009 at btinternet.com Fri Jul 30 16:24:45 2021 From: wjgo_10009 at btinternet.com (William_J_G Overington) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 22:24:45 +0100 (BST) Subject: Please provide green skin-color for emojis" In-Reply-To: <37058e7d-9d46-5dab-b8bf-216920ac2b16@code2001.com> References: <10b3e95.3ce16.17af3a15ac4.Webtop.113@btinternet.com> <79f4d359.3e3f2.17af6faf358.Webtop.83@btinternet.com> <170812b0-3b19-428c-b595-01fd3c1936cb@disroot.org> <37058e7d-9d46-5dab-b8bf-216920ac2b16@code2001.com> Message-ID: <6a1b1288.3dd36.17af94e24d1.Webtop.118@btinternet.com> Well it appears that adding green to that list of skin tone modifiers is not needed. For a non-sequence emoji, just use ZWJ LARGE GREEN SQUARE as a two character suffix. That part is done. The issue that I opine needs answering is as to how to use a ZWJ LARGE GREEN SQUARE if the original emoji is a sequence. It is a different process from the skin tone modifier process. Does one insert ZWJ LARGE GREEN SQUARE where one would insert a skin tone modifier or does one append it to the whole sequence? Does a font designer need to add both encodings to the GSUB table of an OpenType font due to the answer to the encoding problem being unclear? William Overington Friday 30 July 2021 ------ Original Message ------ From: "James Kass via Unicode" To: unicode at corp.unicode.org Sent: Friday, 2021 Jul 30 At 20:16 Subject: Re: Please provide green skin-color for emojis" On 2021-07-30 3:16 PM, abrahamgross--- via Unicode wrote: The unicode document states ?The color of the resulting image may not be exactly the same as the color square.?, so I don't think your worries hold up. Besides, the exact color for any emoji you pick are different between different vendors, The Unicode document also shows the skin tone "emoji modifiers". Those modifiers don't use the ZWJ character. http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr51/#Emoji_Modifiers_Table These five modifiers are based on the six tones of the Fitzpatrick scale for dermatology, which lacks green and other interesting tones. (Type 1, "pale white skin", was combined with Type 2, "white skin".) It seems unlikely that the Fitzpatrick scale would ever be expanded to include shades of green. As with the color squares, the document states that for these diversity emoji modifiers: "The exact shades may vary between implementations". In order to fulfill Hugh Perkins' desire for a green skin tone modifier to be added to Unicode, somebody would have to submit a formal proposal. https://unicode.org/emoji/proposals.html One of the factors the Unicode Emoji Subcommittee uses to assess a proposal for inclusion is the expected usage of proposed characters or sequences. So, who would be using the proposed green skin tone modifier character? Although decomposition and putrefaction often result in a green skin tone, dead men don't text. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From doug at ewellic.org Fri Jul 30 18:31:22 2021 From: doug at ewellic.org (Doug Ewell) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 17:31:22 -0600 Subject: Green astronaut (was: RE: Please provide green skin-color for emojis) Message-ID: <000001d7859b$026d46a0$0747d3e0$@ewellic.org> The "green astronaut" question is answered in UTS #51, "Unicode Emoji." An astronaut emoji is created with a ZWJ sequence: U+1F9D1 ADULT (or U+1F468 MAN or U+1F469 WOMAN) U+200D ZERO WIDTH JOINER U+1F680 ROCKET This is described in Section 2.3.1, "Gender-Neutral Emoji," although the section heading hardly makes that clear. Coloring a base emoji ? let's say green ? is accomplished with another ZWJ sequence: U+1F44D THUMBS UP SIGN U+200D ZERO WIDTH JOINER U+1F7E9 LARGE GREEN SQUARE This is described in Section 2.9, "Color." Then there is a Section 2.11, "Order of Emoji ZWJ Sequences," which defines the canonical order as follows: 1 Base (Section 1.4.1 Emoji Characters) 2 Emoji modifier or emoji presentation selector (Section 2.4 Diversity) 3 Hair component (Section 2.8 Hair Component) 4 Color (Section 2.9, Color) 5 Gender sign or object (Section 2.3.1, Gender-Neutral Emoji) 6 Direction indicator (Section 2.10, Emoji Glyph Facing Direction) Remember that the astronaut sequence goes under the category "gender sign or object." So the sequence is base (1), then ZWJ sequence for color (4), then ZWJ sequence for "astronaut" (5): U+1F9D1 ADULT (or U+1F468 MAN or U+1F469 WOMAN) U+200D ZERO WIDTH JOINER U+1F7E9 LARGE GREEN SQUARE U+200D ZERO WIDTH JOINER U+1F680 ROCKET -- Doug Ewell, CC, ALB | Lakewood, CO, US | ewellic.org From wjgo_10009 at btinternet.com Sat Jul 31 13:03:33 2021 From: wjgo_10009 at btinternet.com (William_J_G Overington) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 19:03:33 +0100 (BST) Subject: Green astronaut (was: RE: Please provide green skin-color for emojis) In-Reply-To: <000001d7859b$026d46a0$0747d3e0$@ewellic.org> References: <000001d7859b$026d46a0$0747d3e0$@ewellic.org> Message-ID: Thank you. That is very helpful. William ------ Original Message ------ From: "Doug Ewell via Unicode" To: unicode at corp.unicode.org Sent: Saturday, 2021 Jul 31 At 00:31 Subject: Green astronaut (was: RE: Please provide green skin-color for emojis) The "green astronaut" question is answered in UTS #51, "Unicode Emoji." An astronaut emoji is created with a ZWJ sequence: U+1F9D1 ADULT (or U+1F468 MAN or U+1F469 WOMAN) U+200D ZERO WIDTH JOINER U+1F680 ROCKET This is described in Section 2.3.1, "Gender-Neutral Emoji," although the section heading hardly makes that clear. Coloring a base emoji ? let's say green ? is accomplished with another ZWJ sequence: U+1F44D THUMBS UP SIGN U+200D ZERO WIDTH JOINER U+1F7E9 LARGE GREEN SQUARE This is described in Section 2.9, "Color." Then there is a Section 2.11, "Order of Emoji ZWJ Sequences," which defines the canonical order as follows: 1 Base (Section 1.4.1 Emoji Characters) 2 Emoji modifier or emoji presentation selector (Section 2.4 Diversity) 3 Hair component (Section 2.8 Hair Component) 4 Color (Section 2.9, Color) 5 Gender sign or object (Section 2.3.1, Gender-Neutral Emoji) 6 Direction indicator (Section 2.10, Emoji Glyph Facing Direction) Remember that the astronaut sequence goes under the category "gender sign or object." So the sequence is base (1), then ZWJ sequence for color (4), then ZWJ sequence for "astronaut" (5): U+1F9D1 ADULT (or U+1F468 MAN or U+1F469 WOMAN) U+200D ZERO WIDTH JOINER U+1F7E9 LARGE GREEN SQUARE U+200D ZERO WIDTH JOINER U+1F680 ROCKET -- Doug Ewell, CC, ALB | Lakewood, CO, US | ewellic.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dchmelik at gmail.com Sat Jul 31 20:38:42 2021 From: dchmelik at gmail.com (David Chmelik) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 18:38:42 -0700 Subject: =?UTF-8?B?c3VwZXJzY3JpcHQgz4A/?= Message-ID: <923fe98d-1f1b-270d-a9bb-36c9e48eda18@gmail.com> There are several other Greek superscripts, so I'm again requesting a superscript ? (pi, Greek letter p.)? It's part of a key instance of the most important mathematical equation (e??=cos x+i sin x) the instance being (with p for ? here) e??+1=0.? The previous argument that mathematics discussion should be in complex document formatted text (TeX, etc.) is false.? There has always been, and still is, mathematics discussion in plain-text only, such as on NNTP/Usenet (and Gmane) and Internet Relay Chat (IRC) some of which still have very large science discussion areas.? You should probably even have complete English and Greek superscripts & subscripts.? That doesn't mean it's necessary to have further levels of superscripts and subscripts because in such less-common cases there is notation for that.? In the more common cases of just one level, scientists are tired of having to use other notation. From jk at koremail.com Sat Jul 31 22:33:06 2021 From: jk at koremail.com (jk at koremail.com) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2021 11:33:06 +0800 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_superscript_=CF=80=3F?= In-Reply-To: <923fe98d-1f1b-270d-a9bb-36c9e48eda18@gmail.com> References: <923fe98d-1f1b-270d-a9bb-36c9e48eda18@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3efc5dcf3a5a8b6bf959706ae1d74ece@koremail.com> Dear David, whilst I fully agree in the importance of Euler's equation, this alone would not seem to be enough. Other Greek superscripts are phonetic symbols which in some contexts could even be used on there own in plain text. What are some other situations one might use superscript ?. Regards John Knightley On 2021-08-01 09:38, David Chmelik via Unicode wrote: > There are several other Greek superscripts, so I'm again requesting a > superscript ? (pi, Greek letter p.)? It's part of a key instance of > the most important mathematical equation (e??=cos x+i sin x) the > instance being (with p for ? here) e??+1=0.? The previous argument > that mathematics discussion should be in complex document formatted > text (TeX, etc.) is false.? There has always been, and still is, > mathematics discussion in plain-text only, such as on NNTP/Usenet (and > Gmane) and Internet Relay Chat (IRC) some of which still have very > large science discussion areas.? You should probably even have > complete English and Greek superscripts & subscripts.? That doesn't > mean it's necessary to have further levels of superscripts and > subscripts because in such less-common cases there is notation for > that.? In the more common cases of just one level, scientists are > tired of having to use other notation.