From pgcon6 at msn.com  Mon Nov 23 17:02:19 2020
From: pgcon6 at msn.com (Peter Constable)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 23:02:19 +0000
Subject: The Pitman English phonotypic alphabet and L2/11-153, L2/11-225
In-Reply-To: <17553e58428.cc7e5a624670.9187194122749323426@kittens.ph>
References: <17553e58428.cc7e5a624670.9187194122749323426@kittens.ph>
Message-ID: <MWHPR1301MB21123AD42FF813C6BBD54DDF86FC0@MWHPR1301MB2112.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

Anybody can pick up the cause of a proposal if they want.

There was some discussion of Karl Pentzlin?s proposal, L2/11-153, at UTC 127<https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2011/11115.htm>. John Cowan provided short feedback (L2/11-185<https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2011/11185-cowan-epa.txt>). Notes I recorded at the time were to the effect that UTC hadn?t seen any clear evidence of any need to encode new characters for the English Phonotypic Alphabet. Note that, over the 19th and 20th centuries, there were many times when different Latin-based conventions were proposed and, sometimes, even adopted for a short time by some users, but UTC doesn?t always decide to encode things that didn?t survive in usage.


Peter

From: Unicode <unicode-bounces at unicode.org> On Behalf Of Fredrick Brennan via Unicode
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 10:19 PM
To: unicode at unicode.org
Subject: The Pitman English phonotypic alphabet and L2/11-153, L2/11-225

Hello friends

I am working with Mr Ramachandran Rajaram on a proposal for the encoding of Pitman shorthand in Unicode.

The history of this shorthand is such that the consonants and vowels can be related to the English Phonotypic Alphabet, also created by Sir Isaac Pitman.

This alphabet was used to write several publications, including the below "The Phonetic News" (1849):

https://twitter.com/gaskell_beth/status/1318267991667167234

There was a proposal to encode this by Mr Karl Pentzlin docketed as L2/11-153. After a comment it was followed up by another revised proposal, sent by the German national body, L2/11-225.

This proposal has good attestation for all requested characters so I am trying to figure out why this proposal failed. Because Mr Pentzlin seems to no longer participate, could the proposal be adopted by someone else, that is to say, me?

Among the characters that were not encoded are Latin capital letter round top A, which the German NB proposed for U+A7AE, now occupied by an unrelated character. Without this character I am having trouble type setting my document and I'm needing to use the private use area.

I am hoping that someone who is an expert in Unicode can help me find out why this proposal failed and what needs to be changed in it so that it can finally be accepted.

While it is not in theory a requirement that the proposal be accepted to encode Pitman shorthand, because the two are so historically linked it would be preferable if I could show the phonotypic version of each shorthand glyph.

Best,
Fred Brennan

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From indolering at gmail.com  Wed Nov 25 19:44:29 2020
From: indolering at gmail.com (Zach Lym)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 17:44:29 -0800
Subject: Minor Updates
Message-ID: <CABWuLVd+B9_vvjH1b0OTOmZnbZ81GgfS313sP1rrEKqxbaxczg@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to understand the current versioning system and how it came into
being.  AFAICT:

* Prior to version 5.2, minor versions were published as a delta of changes [1].
* Staring with 7.0, yearly releases switched to major updates to make
versions predictable [2].

However, 12.1 was released as a minor point release [3].  Is that
because it only changed a single character or is there a stricter
technical definition of minor versions somewhere?

Thank you,
-Zach Lym

[1]: https://unicode.org/versions/
[2]: http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2014/14088-release-num.txt
[3]: https://unicode.org/versions/Unicode12.1.0/

From asmusf at ix.netcom.com  Thu Nov 26 17:20:57 2020
From: asmusf at ix.netcom.com (Asmus Freytag)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 15:20:57 -0800
Subject: Minor Updates
In-Reply-To: <CABWuLVd+B9_vvjH1b0OTOmZnbZ81GgfS313sP1rrEKqxbaxczg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWuLVd+B9_vvjH1b0OTOmZnbZ81GgfS313sP1rrEKqxbaxczg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d94e8a69-d8cb-054d-1f76-75d4b7db0b7c@ix.netcom.com>

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From wjgo_10009 at btinternet.com  Fri Nov 27 05:24:22 2020
From: wjgo_10009 at btinternet.com (William_J_G Overington)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 11:24:22 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Colour font discussion in 2002
Message-ID: <2c9d3d8b.3c5.17609726e90.Webtop.44@btinternet.com>

Now that colour font technology is well-established, some readers might 
find the thread that I started on Monday 24 June 2002 in the Unicode 
mail list archives of historical interest.

https://www.unicode.org/mail-arch/unicode-ml/y2002-m06/

https://www.unicode.org/mail-arch/unicode-ml/y2002-m07/

Please note that my email address used at that time is not one that I 
use now.

I tried to work out ways to encode colour font technology at various 
times over about the next decade.

So  when I saw the solution that Microsoft produced I was very impressed 
by the elegant and straightforward way that the people at Microsoft 
encoded colour fonts, as that elegant way to achieve the result had not 
occurred to me.

William Overington

Friday 27 November 2020

From sosipiuk at gmail.com  Fri Nov 27 11:53:37 2020
From: sosipiuk at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?S=C5=82awomir_Osipiuk?=)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 12:53:37 -0500
Subject: Colour font discussion in 2002
In-Reply-To: <2c9d3d8b.3c5.17609726e90.Webtop.44@btinternet.com>
References: <2c9d3d8b.3c5.17609726e90.Webtop.44@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAM+ijLi7e2D4T5rgtBk2xxcsXJKf0qxP-VpMH-ogyCt+YTg0Wg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 11:39 AM William_J_G Overington via Unicode
<unicode at unicode.org> wrote:
>
> So  when I saw the solution that Microsoft produced I was very impressed
> by the elegant and straightforward way that the people at Microsoft
> encoded colour fonts, as that elegant way to achieve the result had not
> occurred to me.

For those of us not familiar, can you provide a link to the
description? A casual search for "color font microsoft" brings up
results that say there are several ways to "do" color fonts in
Windows, so it's not immediately clear what you're referring to.

S?awomir Osipiuk


From harjitmoe at outlook.com  Fri Nov 27 12:21:15 2020
From: harjitmoe at outlook.com (Harriet Riddle)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 18:21:15 +0000
Subject: Colour font discussion in 2002
In-Reply-To: <CAM+ijLi7e2D4T5rgtBk2xxcsXJKf0qxP-VpMH-ogyCt+YTg0Wg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2c9d3d8b.3c5.17609726e90.Webtop.44@btinternet.com>,
 <CAM+ijLi7e2D4T5rgtBk2xxcsXJKf0qxP-VpMH-ogyCt+YTg0Wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <VI1PR0701MB24134BB1FA7A867BF41BF050B7F80@VI1PR0701MB2413.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>

One presumes COLR (i.e. associating a glyph with a list of one or more glyphs with palette indices which will be shown instead of the base glyph in multicolour presentation), which is the format developed by Microsoft and used by Microsoft's own font.

It is true that Microsoft have since added support for Apple's, Google's and Adobe's formats also. Microsoft's is not the most powerful approach (that would be Adobe's embedded SVGs), but is probably the most true to the existing spirit of TTF/OTF (whereas Google's and Apple's approaches are essentially multicolour versions of bitmap SFNTs).

--Har.

Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>

________________________________
From: Unicode <unicode-bounces at unicode.org> on behalf of S?awomir Osipiuk via Unicode <unicode at unicode.org>
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2020 5:53:37 PM
To: Unicode Discussion <unicode at unicode.org>; William_J_G Overington <wjgo_10009 at btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Colour font discussion in 2002

On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 11:39 AM William_J_G Overington via Unicode
<unicode at unicode.org> wrote:
>
> So  when I saw the solution that Microsoft produced I was very impressed
> by the elegant and straightforward way that the people at Microsoft
> encoded colour fonts, as that elegant way to achieve the result had not
> occurred to me.

For those of us not familiar, can you provide a link to the
description? A casual search for "color font microsoft" brings up
results that say there are several ways to "do" color fonts in
Windows, so it's not immediately clear what you're referring to.

S?awomir Osipiuk

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From wjgo_10009 at btinternet.com  Fri Nov 27 13:29:46 2020
From: wjgo_10009 at btinternet.com (William_J_G Overington)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 19:29:46 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Colour font discussion in 2002
In-Reply-To: <CAM+ijLi7e2D4T5rgtBk2xxcsXJKf0qxP-VpMH-ogyCt+YTg0Wg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2c9d3d8b.3c5.17609726e90.Webtop.44@btinternet.com>
 <CAM+ijLi7e2D4T5rgtBk2xxcsXJKf0qxP-VpMH-ogyCt+YTg0Wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44e696c8.972.1760b2ed435.Webtop.44@btinternet.com>


Hi

Thank you for your interest.

The following introduction is good.

https://www.high-logic.com/font-editor/fontcreator/tutorials/create-opentype-color-fonts 
<https://www.high-logic.com/font-editor/fontcreator/tutorials/create-opentype-color-fonts>

Here are links to documentation files from Microsoft.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/typography/opentype/spec/cpal 
<https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/typography/opentype/spec/cpal>

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/typography/opentype/spec/colr 
<https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/typography/opentype/spec/colr>

Here is a link to an overview of the OpenType font format.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/typography/opentype 
<https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/typography/opentype>

Best regards,

William Overington

Friday 27 November 2020


------ Original Message ------
From: "S?awomir Osipiuk via Unicode" <unicode at unicode.org>
To: "Unicode Discussion" <unicode at unicode.org>; "William_J_G Overington" 
<wjgo_10009 at btinternet.com>
Sent: Friday, 2020 Nov 27 At 17:53
Subject: Re: Colour font discussion in 2002
On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 11:39 AM William_J_G Overington via Unicode
<unicode at unicode.org> wrote:

So  when I saw the solution that Microsoft produced I was very impressed
by the elegant and straightforward way that the people at Microsoft
encoded colour fonts, as that elegant way to achieve the result had not
occurred to me.

For those of us not familiar, can you provide a link to the
description? A casual search for "color font microsoft" brings up
results that say there are several ways to "do" color fonts in
Windows, so it's not immediately clear what you're referring to.

S?awomir Osipiuk


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