Mark E. Shoulson via Unicode
unicode at unicode.org
Sun Nov 11 18:20:08 CST 2018
On 11/11/18 4:16 PM, Asmus Freytag via Unicode wrote:
> On 11/11/2018 12:32 PM, Hans Åberg via Unicode wrote:
>>> Wir sind uns dessen bewusst, dass von Seite der Gegenpartei weder Reue(?), noch Einsicht zu erwarten ist und dass sie die Konsequenzen dieser rabbinischen Gutachten von sich abschüttelen werden mit der Motivierung, dass:
>> vir zind auns dessen bevaust dass fon zeyte der ge- gefarthey veder reye , nakh eynzikht tsu ervarten izt aund dast zya dya kansekventsen dyezer rabbinishen gutakhten fon zikh abshittelen verden mit der motivirung , dass :
> This agrees rather well with Beth's retranslation.
> Mapping "z" to "s", "f" to "v" and "v" to "w" would match the way
> these pronunciations are spelled in German (with a few outliers like
> "izt" for "ist", where the "s" isn't voiced in German). There's also a
> clear convention of using "kh" for "ch" (as in English "loch" but also
> for other pronunciation of the German "ch"). The one apparent mismatch
> is "ge- gefarthey" for "Gegenpartei". Presumably what is
> transliterated as "f" can stand for phonetic "p". "Parthey" might be
> how Germans could have written "Partei" in earlier centuries (when
> "th" was commonly used for "t" and "ey" alternated with "ei", as in my
> last name). So, perhaps it's closer than it looks, superficially.
I think that really IS a "p"; elsewhere in the document they seem to be
quite careful to put a RAFE on top of the PEH when it means "f", and not
using a DAGESH to mark "p". There definitely does seem to be usage of
TET-HEH for "th"; in the Hebrew text at the beginning it talks about the
אורטה׳ community—took me a bit to work out that was an abbreviation for
> From context, "Reue" is by far the best match for "Reye" and seems to
> match a tendency elsewhere in the sample where the transliteration, if
> pronounced as German, would result in a shifted quality for the vowels
> (making them sound more Yiddish, for lack of a better description).
That word is hard to read in the original, hence the "?" in the
transliteration. It isn't clear if it's YOD YOD or YOD VAV and the VAV
is missing its body (the head looks different than it should if it were
a YOD). Which would match your "Reue" fairly well—except that they
generally use AYIN for "e", not "YOD".
> "abschüttelen" - here the second "e" would not be part of Standard
> German orthography. It's either an artifact of the transcription
> system or possibly reflects that the writer is familiar with a
> different spelling convention (to my eyes the spelling "abshittelen"
> looks somehow more Yiddish, but I'm really not familiar enough with
> that language).
The ü is, of course, not in the text in the original; it's just "i".
German ü wound up as "i" in Yiddish, in most cases.
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