Unicode 11 Georgian uppercase vs. fonts

Alexey Ostrovsky via Unicode unicode at unicode.org
Fri Jul 27 06:22:15 CDT 2018

 It is a mistake or misinterpretation of evidence provided (modern samples
and samples from 19th c., provided in N4712 in the same context, are of
different nature, it is clear even from images) and §8 of the document
states opposite. The criteria for presence of orthographic distinction
between cases is clear: there must be either some typical usage of a case
(like USA) or there must be a semantic difference between different cases
(like smith vs. Smith). Neither one is correct for Georgian, use of "case"
is totally optional (the same §8 agrees with that): there is no difference
between "ašš" and "AŠŠ" (აშშ, USA) in the text, so use of uppercase is
exactly the same as small caps (and samples provided in photos only confirm
it). There is no Georgian orthography rules that regulate use of
upper-case. If I am wrong, I will be happy to see an orthographic rule that
distinguish between upper- and lowercase or, at least, recommends to use

What about samples from 19th century, it was the same attempt (under
Cyrillic influence), as an attempt of Shanidze in the middle of 20th
century (however, Shanidze used Asomtavruli, which, again, only proves that
there were no uppercase for Mkhedruli except on the level of an idea).
There were no orthography rules on that and, even more, it was not
orthography as well. Vast majority of samples from the same period of 19th
century are caseless (manuscripts, archive papers, official papers, books,
journals, newspapers -- everything). Either majority of texts from that
period are orthographically incorrect, or there was no such orthography
like uppercase that time. One have to distinguish clearly between
experiments and a common practice, and N4712 only provide samples, it does
not clarify whether it was an orthography or small caps -like usage. an
assertion that those couple samples prove that the georgian script had case
in 19th century is the same as an assertion that the latin script is
caseless in 21st century just because we have enough caseless samples
(including this one).

With all my respect, N2608R2 is right and N4712 is wrong about case in


On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 2:42 PM, Michael Everson via Unicode <
unicode at unicode.org> wrote:

> Yes and it explains clearly that “effectively caseless Georgian” is
> incorrect. Georgian has case. Georgian uses case differently from other
> scripts. This is an orthographic distinction, not a structural one. In fact
> as it is also stated in the proposal, there are 19th-century texts which do
> titlecase. It’s just that that orthography is no longer in use and that
> behaviour no longer desirable.
> Michael Everson
> > On 27 Jul 2018, at 05:54, James Kass via Unicode <unicode at unicode.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Alexey Ostrovsky wrote,
> >
> >> "The Georgian community understood" — sorry, but
> >> here "the Georgian community" means a small group
> >> of Georgian font designers who promote upper-case
> >> for effectively caseless Georgian.
> >
> > https://unicode.org/wg2/docs/n4712-georgian.pdf
> >
> > The revised proposal to change the Georgian encoding model from
> > caseless to casing was convincing and compelling.  (It's bilingual,
> > too, English and Georgian.)
> >
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://unicode.org/pipermail/unicode/attachments/20180727/f81abdc1/attachment.html>

More information about the Unicode mailing list