From ibrahima.sarr at pulaar-fulfulde.org Sun Feb 14 06:03:26 2021 From: ibrahima.sarr at pulaar-fulfulde.org (Ibrahima Malal Sarr) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 13:03:26 +0100 Subject: Contribution for Fulah langage (ff) Message-ID: Hi all, I am Ibrahima Sarr (best known in the Fulah Community as Ibrahima Malal Sarr). I am the main contributor of the Fulah (ff) Unicode data, created back in the years 2000+ as part of the 100 locales for African languages project. Then run by the African Network for Localization (ANLOC). For the record, Fulah almost missed that project as when I heard about it, it was one week before the submission deadline! I had been working on the language codification and digitization since around the early nineties, but that opportunity for Fulah to be included in Unicode was just an incredible opportunity! One week, one person, one computer! It was much too late to build a team, communications then was difficult (by e?pensi?e phone calls or mail that never arrives) simply because many did not have their own computers. So I spent that week working as hard as I can preferably at night. From 11PM to 7Am, then I go to bed until around 3PM, then back to work again during the night! By the end of the week, I had already completed the work. Reviewing and correcting typos took the rest of the time until I was ready to submit! Phew! Then, I received an email from the project owners! I was so nervous because I was convinced they were going to tell me about the deadline, that it was probably too late! I was right about the deadline, but the email said that *the deadline was postponed one week* because they had very little submissions! I almost collapsed! Why didn't you tell me that before? I would have worked with less stress, eaten decent food, ironed my clothes and washed my dishes!!! That funny story was the beginning of the Fulah adventure in Unicode. Later that year, Fulah was included in the CLDR! Since, I have not had the opportunity to work on that data as I did not know how to contribute, file tickets, submit a keyboard and other updates that the language needs. And I still do not know! That is the purpose of this long message, which I am sorry about. To sum up, I would like to know how to have an account that will allow me to carry on the work because we have evolved a great deal since: Firefox, Facebook have been translated into Fulah. I have also created keyboards for Windows, MacOS, Android.... Unfortunately, there is still no Fulah keyboard on Windows 10, yet it has existed since the 90s. Any insight or help would be much appreciated. Best regards Ibrahima Malal Sarr Twitter: @ibrahimasaar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kipcole9 at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 10:27:14 2021 From: kipcole9 at gmail.com (Kip Cole) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 00:27:14 +0800 Subject: Gender not specified for some units in "de" -> by design? Message-ID: I'm adding support for grammatical features to my libs. Am unsure if the lack of gender in some units for the "de" locale means I should open an issue or if I'm missing something about how these should be handled. Examples (in "de" which has gender for many units): dunam, karat, mole . There are others like liter-per-kilometer but the gender here can be derived by the rules in grammaticalFeatures Suggestions welcome, especially as to what gender to apply if none is described. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at macchiato.com Mon Feb 22 12:01:41 2021 From: mark at macchiato.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWFyayBEYXZpcyDimJXvuI8=?=) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 10:01:41 -0800 Subject: Gender not specified for some units in "de" -> by design? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The compound units but are presumed to be derived (the presence for some cases is a holdover, but also useful for testing the compound gender derivation). Mark On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 8:32 AM Kip Cole via CLDR-Users < cldr-users at unicode.org> wrote: > I'm adding support for grammatical features to my libs. Am unsure if the > lack of gender in some units for the "de" locale means I should open an > issue or if I'm missing something about how these should be handled. > Examples (in "de" which has gender for many units): dunam, karat, mole . > There are others like liter-per-kilometer but the gender here can be > derived by the rules in grammaticalFeatures > > Suggestions welcome, especially as to what gender to apply if none is > described. > > _______________________________________________ > CLDR-Users mailing list > CLDR-Users at corp.unicode.org > https://corp.unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kipcole9 at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 18:22:54 2021 From: kipcole9 at gmail.com (Kip Cole) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 08:22:54 +0800 Subject: Gender not specified for some units in "de" -> by design? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8DA9EBD4-7C33-43FC-9188-C5C0302CC063@gmail.com> Mark, thanks for the response but I admit to some confusion. As of now, ?de? units (length=long) have no ?gender? for `dunam`, `karat`, `mole` and some others. How is gender to be derived for them? Thanks much, ?Kip > On 23 Feb 2021, at 2:01 am, Mark Davis ?? wrote: > > The compound units but are presumed to be derived (the presence for some cases is a holdover, but also useful for testing the compound gender derivation). > Mark > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 8:32 AM Kip Cole via CLDR-Users > wrote: > I'm adding support for grammatical features to my libs. Am unsure if the lack of gender in some units for the "de" locale means I should open an issue or if I'm missing something about how these should be handled. Examples (in "de" which has gender for many units): dunam, karat, mole . There are others like liter-per-kilometer but the gender here can be derived by the rules in grammaticalFeatures > > Suggestions welcome, especially as to what gender to apply if none is described. > > _______________________________________________ > CLDR-Users mailing list > CLDR-Users at corp.unicode.org > https://corp.unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at macchiato.com Mon Feb 22 18:29:03 2021 From: mark at macchiato.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWFyayBEYXZpcyDimJXvuI8=?=) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 16:29:03 -0800 Subject: Gender not specified for some units in "de" -> by design? In-Reply-To: <8DA9EBD4-7C33-43FC-9188-C5C0302CC063@gmail.com> References: <8DA9EBD4-7C33-43FC-9188-C5C0302CC063@gmail.com> Message-ID: I just checked, and for some reason those were not presented in the survey tool for data collection. Could you file a ticket on that? Mark On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 4:22 PM Kip Cole wrote: > Mark, thanks for the response but I admit to some confusion. > > As of now, ?de? units (length=long) have no ?gender? for `dunam`, `karat`, > `mole` and some others. How is gender to be derived for them? > > Thanks much, ?Kip > > > On 23 Feb 2021, at 2:01 am, Mark Davis ?? wrote: > > The compound units but are presumed to be derived (the presence for some > cases is a holdover, but also useful for testing the compound gender > derivation). > Mark > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 8:32 AM Kip Cole via CLDR-Users < > cldr-users at unicode.org> wrote: > >> I'm adding support for grammatical features to my libs. Am unsure if the >> lack of gender in some units for the "de" locale means I should open an >> issue or if I'm missing something about how these should be handled. >> Examples (in "de" which has gender for many units): dunam, karat, mole . >> There are others like liter-per-kilometer but the gender here can be >> derived by the rules in grammaticalFeatures >> >> Suggestions welcome, especially as to what gender to apply if none is >> described. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CLDR-Users mailing list >> CLDR-Users at corp.unicode.org >> https://corp.unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kipcole9 at gmail.com Sun Feb 28 16:50:35 2021 From: kipcole9 at gmail.com (Kip Cole) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 06:50:35 +0800 Subject: Grammatical features / gender power & prefix derivation Message-ID: <86C2719E-57F0-4E9F-9178-DB220E3218DA@gmail.com> My understanding of TR35 section 16.1 is that when deriving the grammatical gender of a ?power? (like ?square meter?) or ?prefix? (like ?milligram?) the basic operation is to strip the power and/or prefix and derive the gender of the base unit (?meter? in this case). If my understanding is correct, then looking at the Section 16.1: Is there any circumstance whereby ?value? could be anything other than ?0? ? Is there any circumstance where the power or prefix themselves would form part of the gender determination? (Based on the above I assume not, but confirmation would be helpful). Looking at the locales for ?root?, ?de? and ?fr?, all of them have ?value=0? for ?power? and ?prefix?. Many thanks, ?Kip -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at macchiato.com Sun Feb 28 18:38:40 2021 From: mark at macchiato.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWFyayBEYXZpcyDimJXvuI8=?=) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 16:38:40 -0800 Subject: Grammatical features / gender power & prefix derivation In-Reply-To: <86C2719E-57F0-4E9F-9178-DB220E3218DA@gmail.com> References: <86C2719E-57F0-4E9F-9178-DB220E3218DA@gmail.com> Message-ID: It could be a constant gender, like masculine. Note that if we run into languages that need more "interesting rules", then we would be expanding the structure. On Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 14:55 Kip Cole via CLDR-Users wrote: > My understanding of TR35 section 16.1 is that when deriving the > grammatical gender of a ?power? (like ?square meter?) or ?prefix? (like > ?milligram?) the basic operation is to strip the power and/or prefix and > derive the gender of the base unit (?meter? in this case). > > If my understanding is correct, then looking at the Section 16.1: > > > > > Is there any circumstance whereby ?value? could be anything other than ?0? > ? Is there any circumstance where the power or prefix themselves would form > part of the gender determination? (Based on the above I assume not, but > confirmation would be helpful). Looking at the locales for ?root?, ?de? > and ?fr?, all of them have ?value=0? for ?power? and ?prefix?. > > Many thanks, ?Kip > > _______________________________________________ > CLDR-Users mailing list > CLDR-Users at corp.unicode.org > https://corp.unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richard.wordingham at ntlworld.com Sun Feb 28 19:18:40 2021 From: richard.wordingham at ntlworld.com (Richard Wordingham) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 01:18:40 +0000 Subject: Grammatical features / gender power & prefix derivation In-Reply-To: <86C2719E-57F0-4E9F-9178-DB220E3218DA@gmail.com> References: <86C2719E-57F0-4E9F-9178-DB220E3218DA@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20210301011840.62516e72@JRWUBU2> On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 06:50:35 +0800 Kip Cole via CLDR-Users wrote: > My understanding of TR35 section 16.1 is that when deriving the > grammatical gender of a ?power? (like ?square meter?) or > ?prefix? (like ?milligram?) the basic operation is to strip the power > and/or prefix and derive the gender of the base unit (?meter? in this > case). > > If my understanding is correct, then looking at the Section 16.1: > feature="gender" structure="prefix" value="0"/> Is there any circumstance > whereby ?value? could be anything other than ?0? ? Is there any > circumstance where the power or prefix themselves would form part of > the gender determination? (Based on the above I assume not, but > confirmation would be helpful). Looking at the locales for ?root?, > ?de? and ?fr?, all of them have ?value=0? for ?power? and ?prefix?. I think you need something like a Tigrinya or Sanskrit locale to give you any confidence. In Latin, the plural thousands are neuter nouns (with the counted object in the genitive plural) and Pali can form compounds with 'thousand' as a neuter head noun in a fuctionally similar construction. In Pali the higher numerals are feminine, so there's certainly scope for the prefixes to take genders. Richard. From mark at macchiato.com Sun Feb 28 21:54:36 2021 From: mark at macchiato.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWFyayBEYXZpcyDimJXvuI8=?=) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 19:54:36 -0800 Subject: Grammatical features / gender power & prefix derivation In-Reply-To: <20210301011840.62516e72@JRWUBU2> References: <86C2719E-57F0-4E9F-9178-DB220E3218DA@gmail.com> <20210301011840.62516e72@JRWUBU2> Message-ID: below Mark On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 5:23 PM Richard Wordingham via CLDR-Users < cldr-users at unicode.org> wrote: > On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 06:50:35 +0800 > Kip Cole via CLDR-Users wrote: > > > My understanding of TR35 section 16.1 is that when deriving the > > grammatical gender of a ?power? (like ?square meter?) or > > ?prefix? (like ?milligram?) the basic operation is to strip the power > > and/or prefix and derive the gender of the base unit (?meter? in this > > case). > > > > If my understanding is correct, then looking at the Section 16.1: > > > feature="gender" structure="prefix" value="0"/> Is there any circumstance > > whereby ?value? could be anything other than ?0? ? Is there any > > circumstance where the power or prefix themselves would form part of > > the gender determination? (Based on the above I assume not, but > > confirmation would be helpful). Looking at the locales for ?root?, > > ?de? and ?fr?, all of them have ?value=0? for ?power? and ?prefix?. > > I think you need something like a Tigrinya or Sanskrit locale to give > you any confidence. Our strategy is to work incrementally towards fleshing out the grammar support, planning to add features when we start supporting languages that need them (instead of trying to tackle the grammar of all 7K+ languages in one gulp!). > In Latin, the plural thousands are neuter nouns > (with the counted object in the genitive plural) and Pali can form > compounds with 'thousand' as a neuter head noun in a fuctionally similar > construction. For compound units, the only prefixes we are considering are the ones corresponding to the SI prefixes kilo-, mega-, milli-, etc., and only in combination with certain base forms (meter, second, ...). So the scope is limited to those. > In Pali the higher numerals are feminine, so there's > certainly scope for the prefixes to take genders. > We are not talking a prefix "taking" gender, but rather contributing to the gender of the result. For example, given the gender of the unit "meter", and the prefix "kilo-", what is the gender of the unit "kilometer"? (In the target language, of course!) > > Richard. > > _______________________________________________ > CLDR-Users mailing list > CLDR-Users at corp.unicode.org > https://corp.unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: