From lmelonimamo at protonmail.com Thu Nov 19 12:42:24 2020 From: lmelonimamo at protonmail.com (lmelonimamo) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2020 18:42:24 +0000 Subject: Sardinian in CLDR releases Message-ID: Hello, Reading the CLDR 38 release note, I've noted that some languages have been added to it even while being at a Basic or Moderate level. Meanwhile, Sardinian seems to be missing even if it only needs the emoji characters to reach the Modern level. Could I ask you why is that? What should be done to add it as well? Best regards, Luca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at macchiato.com Thu Nov 19 16:09:05 2020 From: mark at macchiato.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWFyayBEYXZpcyDimJXvuI8=?=) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2020 14:09:05 -0800 Subject: Sardinian in CLDR releases In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On that release note, we selected languages that had shown the most change. That being said, here are a few comments about Sardinian. 1. A main factor is whether enough data has been confirmed at a Basic level, which is assessed according to http://cldr.unicode.org/index/process#TOC-Draft-Status-of-Optimal-Field-Value. To improve that, we'd typically need the additional involvement of an organization that is a recognized authority on a language. This can be a university, government agency, or similar institution. If there are any such organizations for Sardinian. 2. There is a project this cycle of reforming the way we measure coverage (which is visible on https://unicode-org.github.io/cldr-staging/charts/38/supplemental/locale_coverage.html#sc) that should improve the Basic scores for some languages. Mark On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 10:43 AM lmelonimamo via CLDR-Users < cldr-users at unicode.org> wrote: > Hello, > Reading the CLDR 38 release note, I've noted that some languages have been > added to it even while being at a Basic or Moderate level. Meanwhile, > Sardinian seems to be missing even if it only needs the emoji characters to > reach the Modern level. Could I ask you why is that? What should be done to > add it as well? > > Best regards, > Luca > > > > _______________________________________________ > CLDR-Users mailing list > CLDR-Users at corp.unicode.org > https://corp.unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lmelonimamo at protonmail.com Fri Nov 20 05:55:28 2020 From: lmelonimamo at protonmail.com (lmelonimamo) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 11:55:28 +0000 Subject: Sardinian in CLDR releases In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4WqE5YW2zqNVCnuxS7beDuTebTCcBTFgEhVVhh6KrkDT0GsZTG4KAz-kcnpCnlTFC105vtxIWAbw_NxJu_180MPrh7oGnb2053FD-C7Wvvk=@protonmail.com> Unfortunately there is no such organization for Sardinian right now. I'm part of an association, Sardware, that works for the promotion of Sardinian by translating software and creating translation memories (like Softcatal? does for Catalan, to make an analogy), but I don't know if that could be enough. Best regards, Luca ??????? Original Message ??????? On Thursday, November 19, 2020 11:09 PM, Mark Davis ?? wrote: > On that release note, we selected languages that had shown the most change. > > That being said, here are a few comments about Sardinian. > > - A main factor is whether enough data has been confirmed at a Basic level, which is assessed according to http://cldr.unicode.org/index/process#TOC-Draft-Status-of-Optimal-Field-Value. To improve that, we'd typically need the additional involvement of an organization that is a recognized authority on a language. This can be a university, government agency, or similar institution. If there are any such organizations for Sardinian. > - There is a project this cycle of reforming the way we measure coverage (which is visible on https://unicode-org.github.io/cldr-staging/charts/38/supplemental/locale_coverage.html#sc) that should improve the Basic scores for some languages. > > Mark > > On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 10:43 AM lmelonimamo via CLDR-Users wrote: > >> Hello, >> Reading the CLDR 38 release note, I've noted that some languages have been added to it even while being at a Basic or Moderate level. Meanwhile, Sardinian seems to be missing even if it only needs the emoji characters to reach the Modern level. Could I ask you why is that? What should be done to add it as well? >> >> Best regards, >> Luca >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CLDR-Users mailing list >> CLDR-Users at corp.unicode.org >> https://corp.unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at macchiato.com Fri Nov 20 09:28:35 2020 From: mark at macchiato.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWFyayBEYXZpcyDimJXvuI8=?=) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 07:28:35 -0800 Subject: Sardinian in CLDR releases In-Reply-To: <4WqE5YW2zqNVCnuxS7beDuTebTCcBTFgEhVVhh6KrkDT0GsZTG4KAz-kcnpCnlTFC105vtxIWAbw_NxJu_180MPrh7oGnb2053FD-C7Wvvk=@protonmail.com> References: <4WqE5YW2zqNVCnuxS7beDuTebTCcBTFgEhVVhh6KrkDT0GsZTG4KAz-kcnpCnlTFC105vtxIWAbw_NxJu_180MPrh7oGnb2053FD-C7Wvvk=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: That may be sufficient. Could you make a ticket with background information including links to web pages by and/or about the association? Especially useful would be if your social is recognized or cited by a regional Sardinian governmental agency. On Fri, Nov 20, 2020, 03:55 lmelonimamo wrote: > Unfortunately there is no such organization for Sardinian right now. I'm > part of an association, Sardware, that works for the promotion of Sardinian > by translating software and creating translation memories (like Softcatal? > does for Catalan, to make an analogy), but I don't know if that could be > enough. > > Best regards, > Luca > > > > ??????? Original Message ??????? > On Thursday, November 19, 2020 11:09 PM, Mark Davis ?? > wrote: > > On that release note, we selected languages that had shown the most change. > > That being said, here are a few comments about Sardinian. > > 1. A main factor is whether enough data has been confirmed at a Basic > level, which is assessed according to > http://cldr.unicode.org/index/process#TOC-Draft-Status-of-Optimal-Field-Value. > To improve that, we'd typically need the additional involvement of an > organization that is a recognized authority on a language. This can be a > university, government agency, or similar institution. If there are any > such organizations for Sardinian. > 2. There is a project this cycle of reforming the way we measure > coverage (which is visible on > https://unicode-org.github.io/cldr-staging/charts/38/supplemental/locale_coverage.html#sc) > that should improve the Basic scores for some languages. > > > Mark > > > > On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 10:43 AM lmelonimamo via CLDR-Users < > cldr-users at unicode.org> wrote: > >> Hello, >> Reading the CLDR 38 release note, I've noted that some languages have >> been added to it even while being at a Basic or Moderate level. Meanwhile, >> Sardinian seems to be missing even if it only needs the emoji characters to >> reach the Modern level. Could I ask you why is that? What should be done to >> add it as well? >> >> Best regards, >> Luca >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CLDR-Users mailing list >> CLDR-Users at corp.unicode.org >> https://corp.unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lmelonimamo at protonmail.com Fri Nov 20 12:57:39 2020 From: lmelonimamo at protonmail.com (lmelonimamo) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 18:57:39 +0000 Subject: Sardinian in CLDR releases In-Reply-To: References: <4WqE5YW2zqNVCnuxS7beDuTebTCcBTFgEhVVhh6KrkDT0GsZTG4KAz-kcnpCnlTFC105vtxIWAbw_NxJu_180MPrh7oGnb2053FD-C7Wvvk=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: Ok, thank you very much. I've done it right now. https://unicode-org.atlassian.net/browse/CLDR-14314 Luca ??????? Original Message ??????? On Friday, November 20, 2020 4:28 PM, Mark Davis ?? wrote: > That may be sufficient. Could you make a ticket with background information including links to web pages by and/or about the association? Especially useful would be if your social is recognized or cited by a regional Sardinian governmental agency. > > On Fri, Nov 20, 2020, 03:55 lmelonimamo wrote: > >> Unfortunately there is no such organization for Sardinian right now. I'm part of an association, Sardware, that works for the promotion of Sardinian by translating software and creating translation memories (like Softcatal? does for Catalan, to make an analogy), but I don't know if that could be enough. >> >> Best regards, >> Luca >> >> ??????? Original Message ??????? >> On Thursday, November 19, 2020 11:09 PM, Mark Davis ?? wrote: >> >>> On that release note, we selected languages that had shown the most change. >>> >>> That being said, here are a few comments about Sardinian. >>> >>> - A main factor is whether enough data has been confirmed at a Basic level, which is assessed according to http://cldr.unicode.org/index/process#TOC-Draft-Status-of-Optimal-Field-Value. To improve that, we'd typically need the additional involvement of an organization that is a recognized authority on a language. This can be a university, government agency, or similar institution. If there are any such organizations for Sardinian. >>> - There is a project this cycle of reforming the way we measure coverage (which is visible on https://unicode-org.github.io/cldr-staging/charts/38/supplemental/locale_coverage.html#sc) that should improve the Basic scores for some languages. >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 10:43 AM lmelonimamo via CLDR-Users wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> Reading the CLDR 38 release note, I've noted that some languages have been added to it even while being at a Basic or Moderate level. Meanwhile, Sardinian seems to be missing even if it only needs the emoji characters to reach the Modern level. Could I ask you why is that? What should be done to add it as well? >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Luca >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> CLDR-Users mailing list >>>> CLDR-Users at corp.unicode.org >>>> https://corp.unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lujki1 at gmail.com Fri Nov 20 20:50:13 2020 From: lujki1 at gmail.com (Luka) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 03:50:13 +0100 Subject: Montenegrin Code Problem Message-ID: Hello everyone, I would like to point out to a couple of very serious issues that are left open for years now with the Montenegrin language. It is currently assigned with a sr-ME code which implies its former, outdated status of Serbian spoken in Montenegro. Namely, Serbian spoken in Montenegro and Montenegrin language are two distinct things, which the LoC recognized and hence assigned the ?cnr? code to Montenegrin. What has been done in CLDR however was not reflective of this change. Instead, sr-ME (Serbian in Montenegro) has merely been renamed to Montenegrin, even though these two are distinct standardized languages with different, mutually excluding orthographies! As a result, the localization is totally wrong, it ended up being a horrible mish-mash of very little actual Montenegrin thrown here and there, and two different dialects of Serbian (Ijekavian, the dialect of Serbian spoken in Montenegro as well as Ekavian, the dialect spoken exclusively in Serbia inherited from the sr parent directory since little work is done for sr-ME specifically, I saw that since I registered for the Survey Tool). Aside from the immensely serious issue of horrible localization that came as a result, I have personally found it to be the case that most developers I have been in touch with when offering to translate their apps to Montenegrin have told me either that they do not have Montenegrin as an option but only Serbian (Montenegro) or that ?they already have Serbian.? As a result, there is literally no proper localization in Montenegrin, even bigger companies such as Google and Microsoft stick with recognizing it as Serbian (Montenegro) due to the sr-ME code and do not offer their services in Montenegrin. As a result there is no Google Translate in Montenegrin, Google Keyboard in Montenegrin is a copy-paste of the Serbian version with no actual Montenegrin, Windows is offered in Serbian (Montenegro) etc. All this totally defeats the purpose of localization since neither the speakers of Serbian language in Montenegro are respected (since now there is no such thing as Serbian (Montenegro) in CLDR so their own dialect isn?t covered), nor the speakers of Montenegrin are (due to it being in the Serbian parent directory, inheriting all the wrong localizations and essentially dead for any serious localization attempt by any company, making the lives of Montenegrins significantly more difficult. Not to mention the unfairness of having Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian, three other members of the macro language that Montenegrin belongs to, all have their own codes and proper localizations, while only the speakers of Montenegrin do not). I would not be raising this issue here since it?s already been filed under CLDR-10769 on Atlassian, however, except for me stating these same points, it?s been dead for 2 years now, with no priority assigned and no assignees. I?d be immensely grateful if I could get any response on this issue. Yours faithfully, Luka. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: