Locale bringup and barriers for entry

[Philippe Verdy via CLDR-Users]

Note that the supplemental data is OK for the "cardinal" and "range" type
of categories, but largely failing almost everywhere for the "ordinal" type.
E.g. in French: "Prenez la 1re à droite" (this assumes the feminine gender,
which is ok for "rue"="street", "avenue", or "sortie"="exit", but wrong for
"feu"="trafic light" or "stop" which are masculine, as in "Tournez au 1er
feu à droite", where "1er" and "1re" change depending on the gender of the
explicit or implicit noun)

Yes ordinals (but also fractions) need derivation by gender (as well as
grammatical case) including for abbreviated forms (e.g. in French, Italian,
Spanish, but even in English with inflected leading articles like "a" vs.
"an", which depends on the numeric value of the ordinal).

And I see little use of these "ordinal" types except in strict isolation
assuming a nominal use (outside of real sentences where they will be
inserted) without any relation with the noun (or nominal group) to which
they refer (note: this noun or nominal group may be outside the curent
isolated "paragraph", such as a column heading, or other info such as
resulting ranks in sportive competition for women, vs. the same table for
men.

Basically this means that CLDR just provides baic data that still needs to
be tuned and localized again for specific applications, even if this tuning
is generic. What CLDR can do however is to monitor if there are stable
applications desiring to interchange their localized data containign gender
or case differences: if their localisation data is large enough to cover
enough locales for a significant part of the world and theyr want to
interoperate, they will create a defacto standard that can be integrated
(after being proposed to CLDR with enough examplar data and open licencing).

Such applications already exist (notably across wikis, ven if this still
requires much work to have them cooperate together to stabilize some issues
and agree to some common formats, and efficicently track the translations
problems remaining and how to manage the remaining incoherences, as well as
accepting some deviations for specific uses in more specific pages they
don't want to break).



Le mar. 25 sept. 2018 à 13:02, Philippe Verdy <verdy_p at wanadoo.fr> a écrit :

>
>
> Le mar. 25 sept. 2018 à 11:32, Marcel Schneider <charupdate at orange.fr> a
> écrit :
>
>> On 25/09/18 10:00 Philippe Verdy wrote:
>> > Plural rules are documented. These are defined as minimal data needed
>> to start any new locale.
>>
>> That seems to be one of those barriers that Steven is now questioning, or
>> even the main barrier for entry.
>> For me that would remain a barrier as long as I cannot get clear insight
>> nor see straightforward structures to fill in.
>>
>> See the documentation:
> http://cldr.unicode.org/index/cldr-spec/plural-rules
>
> And the supplemental data which gives a list per locale:
>
> http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/latest/supplemental/language_plural_rules.html
>
>
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