From cldr-users at unicode.org  Sat Dec  1 07:59:58 2018
From: cldr-users at unicode.org (Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2018 14:59:58 +0100
Subject: Minifying CLDR sources (also: Re: Hard-to-use "annotations" files in
 LDML)
In-Reply-To: <531cf9b2-b817-eba4-fd3e-a8d82e3ae993@orange.fr>
References: <32b9eb3b-6fdb-2b22-a6bb-0f34fdf1d34d@orange.fr>
 <4ace2465-2a07-4ec6-8ece-a25ec31300fa@ix.netcom.com>
 <CAFYQx+An5-48cTCOL=OqbTgDRjihTLT=1qE5B1kBRdpsAtS9uQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <e5b7d189-04ba-13a8-4414-c671a954607e@orange.fr>
 <531cf9b2-b817-eba4-fd3e-a8d82e3ae993@orange.fr>
Message-ID: <4c077c9e-f132-a8b3-baec-6b6bec76979b@orange.fr>

VS Code is a great text editor. Thanks for sharing the hint.
My issue is just that while taking into account all my key remappings, it does not so for BKSP,
so the backspace key did Ctrl+Backspace all at once. Just fixed it by editing keybindings.json.

> Would you mind adding these comments to a copy of the following two files:

We may identify the emoji using their short names already present in the files next to the keywords.

I now understand that leaving out the code points is a way of minifying the files.
Eg the English flag element would be in annotationsDerived/fr.xml:

<annotation cp="1F3F4 E0067 E0062 E0065 E006E E0067 E007F" char="??????????????" type="tts">drapeau : Angleterre</annotation>

But indeed for survey we don?t need that information. Sorry for my request.

Given that minifying the files is an interesting issue, one might wish to go even a step further by collapsing
the element of the keywords and the element of the short name.
Taking again the first emoji (modifier) in annotations/fr.xml:

Now:
<annotation cp="??">peau | peau claire</annotation>
<annotation cp="??" type="tts">peau claire</annotation>

After collapsing:
<annotation cp="??" sna="peau claire">peau | peau claire</annotation>

That would reduce these files to almost half their actual size without any loss of data, given
extracting the short name from an argument value rather than from an element content is only a
matter of processing XML/LDML.

Best regards,
Marcel

From cldr-users at unicode.org  Sun Dec  2 06:34:14 2018
From: cldr-users at unicode.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Christoph_P=C3=A4per?= via CLDR-Users)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2018 13:34:14 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Hard-to-use "annotations" files in LDML
In-Reply-To: <e5b7d189-04ba-13a8-4414-c671a954607e@orange.fr>
References: <32b9eb3b-6fdb-2b22-a6bb-0f34fdf1d34d@orange.fr>
 <4ace2465-2a07-4ec6-8ece-a25ec31300fa@ix.netcom.com>
 <CAFYQx+An5-48cTCOL=OqbTgDRjihTLT=1qE5B1kBRdpsAtS9uQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <e5b7d189-04ba-13a8-4414-c671a954607e@orange.fr>
Message-ID: <2051409773.16150.1543754054531@ox.hosteurope.de>

Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users:
> 
> Please help people like me with solutions that work out of the box.

This. The web survey tool is slow and unstable, so editing the files directly -- after one has figured out this is possible at all -- is preferable for some tasks at least. XML is not the best format to do that, but I can cope with it.

From cldr-users at unicode.org  Sun Dec  2 16:33:24 2018
From: cldr-users at unicode.org (Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2018 23:33:24 +0100
Subject: Failing to correct assessed errors via ST
Message-ID: <dab7811b-7901-7e1c-d558-003035a39853@orange.fr>

French has a number of remaining errors to correct, listed in ticket #11303:

https://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/11303

But the GUI of ST has no button enabled to do it. So I?ve tried to submit this file (most comments stripped off):

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
<!DOCTYPE ldml SYSTEM "../../common/dtd/ldml.dtd">
<ldml>
	<identity>
		<version number="$Revision$"/>
		<language type="fr"/>
	</identity>
	<units>
		<unitLength type="long">
			<unit type="mass-kilogram">
				<perUnitPattern>{0} par kilogramme</perUnitPattern>   <!-- was: {0} par kg -->
			</unit>
		</unitLength>
	</units>
</ldml>

But submission failed because that value is read-only in this limited survey round.

It would be nice if ST would be set up so that we can fix errors now instead of leaving them for survey 36.

Thanks.

Marcel

From cldr-users at unicode.org  Sun Dec  2 18:56:39 2018
From: cldr-users at unicode.org (Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2018 01:56:39 +0100
Subject: Hard-to-use "annotations" files in LDML
In-Reply-To: <2051409773.16150.1543754054531@ox.hosteurope.de>
References: <32b9eb3b-6fdb-2b22-a6bb-0f34fdf1d34d@orange.fr>
 <4ace2465-2a07-4ec6-8ece-a25ec31300fa@ix.netcom.com>
 <CAFYQx+An5-48cTCOL=OqbTgDRjihTLT=1qE5B1kBRdpsAtS9uQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <e5b7d189-04ba-13a8-4414-c671a954607e@orange.fr>
 <2051409773.16150.1543754054531@ox.hosteurope.de>
Message-ID: <7f1524e6-f8d5-60a6-ad2e-2bac2591df2a@orange.fr>

On 02/12/2018 13:34, Christoph P?per via CLDR-Users wrote:
> Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users:
>> 
>> Please help people like me with solutions that work out of the box.
> 
> This. The web survey tool is slow and unstable, so editing the files
> directly -- after one has figured out this is possible at all -- is
> preferable for some tasks at least. XML is not the best format to do
> that, but I can cope with it.
The new problem now is that this survey is a limited one, so many fixes
are impossible.

Survey Tool itself is reported to be much more stable.

That said, I?ve added the emoji code points in trailing comments
following Steven R. Loomis? advice, using VS Code and LibreOffice Calc.

Using LDML files we can do our homework in expectation of survey 36,
while righ now French has to catch up vetting. (German is among the
most advanced locales, regarding the number of already submitted votes.)
http://st.unicode.org/cldr-apps/v#statistics///

Best regards,
Marcel

From cldr-users at unicode.org  Mon Dec  3 01:34:52 2018
From: cldr-users at unicode.org (=?UTF-8?B?TWFyayBEYXZpcyDimJXvuI8=?= via CLDR-Users)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2018 08:34:52 +0100
Subject: Failing to correct assessed errors via ST
In-Reply-To: <dab7811b-7901-7e1c-d558-003035a39853@orange.fr>
References: <dab7811b-7901-7e1c-d558-003035a39853@orange.fr>
Message-ID: <CAJ2xs_F1eJSvcCEU5t0kD9kRz5HnS4xhZ3GSzkohUPuOpyc9EQ@mail.gmail.com>

This is a limited-scope release, thus changes are specific to certain types
of items as described on http://cldr.unicode.org/translation. Other items
will be read-only.

This is due to the season ? and because of shift of 3 months forward in the
release of Unicode 12, giving limited time for data resolution. So please
hold off on trying to make other changes until the general submission in
v36.

Note also that we are still in Shakedown until the limited submission is
begun: the target is for end of day today unless there are significant
problems in the tool.

Mark


On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 11:34 PM Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users <
cldr-users at unicode.org> wrote:

> French has a number of remaining errors to correct, listed in ticket
> #11303:
>
> https://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/11303
>
> But the GUI of ST has no button enabled to do it. So I?ve tried to submit
> this file (most comments stripped off):
>
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
> <!DOCTYPE ldml SYSTEM "../../common/dtd/ldml.dtd">
> <ldml>
>         <identity>
>                 <version number="$Revision$"/>
>                 <language type="fr"/>
>         </identity>
>         <units>
>                 <unitLength type="long">
>                         <unit type="mass-kilogram">
>                                 <perUnitPattern>{0} par
> kilogramme</perUnitPattern>   <!-- was: {0} par kg -->
>                         </unit>
>                 </unitLength>
>         </units>
> </ldml>
>
> But submission failed because that value is read-only in this limited
> survey round.
>
> It would be nice if ST would be set up so that we can fix errors now
> instead of leaving them for survey 36.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Marcel
> _______________________________________________
> CLDR-Users mailing list
> CLDR-Users at unicode.org
> http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://unicode.org/pipermail/cldr-users/attachments/20181203/a895a63c/attachment.html>

From cldr-users at unicode.org  Mon Dec  3 06:37:51 2018
From: cldr-users at unicode.org (Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2018 13:37:51 +0100
Subject: Failing to correct assessed errors via ST
In-Reply-To: <CAJ2xs_F1eJSvcCEU5t0kD9kRz5HnS4xhZ3GSzkohUPuOpyc9EQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dab7811b-7901-7e1c-d558-003035a39853@orange.fr>
 <CAJ2xs_F1eJSvcCEU5t0kD9kRz5HnS4xhZ3GSzkohUPuOpyc9EQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e371f249-1408-90e0-83f9-eee01bd78e94@orange.fr>

On 03/12/2018 08:34, Mark Davis ?? via CLDR-Users wrote:
> This is a limited-scope release, thus changes are specific to certain types of items as described on http://cldr.unicode.org/translation. Other items will be read-only.
>
> This is due to the season ? and because of shift of 3 months forward in the release of Unicode 12, giving limited time for data resolution. So please hold off on trying to make other changes until the general submission in v36.
>
> Note also that we are still in Shakedown until the limited submission is begun: the target is for end of day today unless there are significant problems in the tool.
>
> Mark

OK, got it. Thank you for clarification.

Best Regards,
Marcel
> //
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 11:34 PM Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users <cldr-users at unicode.org <mailto:cldr-users at unicode.org>> wrote:
>
>     French has a number of remaining errors to correct, listed in ticket #11303:
>
>     https://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/11303
>
>     But the GUI of ST has no button enabled to do it. So I?ve tried to submit this file (most comments stripped off):
>
>     <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
>     <!DOCTYPE ldml SYSTEM "../../common/dtd/ldml.dtd">
>     <ldml>
>     ? ? ? ? <identity>
>     ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <version number="$Revision$"/>
>     ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <language type="fr"/>
>     ? ? ? ? </identity>
>     ? ? ? ? <units>
>     ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <unitLength type="long">
>     ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <unit type="mass-kilogram">
>     ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <perUnitPattern>{0} par kilogramme</perUnitPattern>? ?<!-- was: {0} par kg -->
>     ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? </unit>
>     ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? </unitLength>
>     ? ? ? ? </units>
>     </ldml>
>
>     But submission failed because that value is read-only in this limited survey round.
>
>     It would be nice if ST would be set up so that we can fix errors now instead of leaving them for survey 36.
>
>     Thanks.
>
>     Marcel
>     _______________________________________________
>     CLDR-Users mailing list
>     CLDR-Users at unicode.org <mailto:CLDR-Users at unicode.org>
>     http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CLDR-Users mailing list
> CLDR-Users at unicode.org
> http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://unicode.org/pipermail/cldr-users/attachments/20181203/1266dc09/attachment.html>

From cldr-users at unicode.org  Tue Dec  4 17:58:45 2018
From: cldr-users at unicode.org (Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 00:58:45 +0100
Subject: Enhanced support of bulk submission during partial or full survey
 (was: Re: Hard-to-use "annotations" files in LDML)
In-Reply-To: <2051409773.16150.1543754054531@ox.hosteurope.de>
References: <32b9eb3b-6fdb-2b22-a6bb-0f34fdf1d34d@orange.fr>
 <4ace2465-2a07-4ec6-8ece-a25ec31300fa@ix.netcom.com>
 <CAFYQx+An5-48cTCOL=OqbTgDRjihTLT=1qE5B1kBRdpsAtS9uQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <e5b7d189-04ba-13a8-4414-c671a954607e@orange.fr>
 <2051409773.16150.1543754054531@ox.hosteurope.de>
Message-ID: <533eae0c-ff47-8eee-104f-3065d6afc230@orange.fr>

On 02/12/2018 13:34, Christoph P?per via CLDR-Users wrote:
[?]
> editing the files directly [?] is preferable for some tasks [?].
> [?] I can cope with it [XML].

As suggested in ticket #11646
https://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/11646

it would be helpful when all new items and other priority items were summarized in one single
LDML file for quick localization in a text editor, which often involves bulk search-and-replace,
leaving alone the identifiers (values of `type` arguments) of course.

Doing the edits in a text editor has the additional benefit of easily checking the correct
non-breakable spaces when using appropriate software. (I?m using Gedit with the Draw Spaces
plugin installed and "Draw non-breaking spaces" enabled.)

It?s now up to the Community to look if that would be handy for everyone or at least for
many people, as setting up such a file just for a single community or worse, a single vetter
would be a non-starter.

Meanwhile we may already do it for our personal use and share the off-falling file(s) with
co-vetters.

This is a call for feedback.

Best wishes,
Marcel

From cldr-users at unicode.org  Fri Dec  7 04:52:08 2018
From: cldr-users at unicode.org (Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 11:52:08 +0100
Subject: SurveyTool support request: How do you vote for empty?
Message-ID: <b2ef8fed-c332-86af-0e73-d7b23665bdf6@orange.fr>

Hello,

Many time zones do not switch to daylight time, and many
zones seem not to have a short name like "PT" or "PST"
for Pacific [Standard] Time.

But I?m unable to find out how to get appropriate votes
into SurveyTool.

I?ve filed a ticket about the issue as I see it:

https://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/11655

Thanks for any hint.

Marcel

From cldr-users at unicode.org  Fri Dec  7 23:27:47 2018
From: cldr-users at unicode.org (Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2018 06:27:47 +0100
Subject: SurveyTool support request: How do you vote for empty?
In-Reply-To: <b2ef8fed-c332-86af-0e73-d7b23665bdf6@orange.fr>
References: <b2ef8fed-c332-86af-0e73-d7b23665bdf6@orange.fr>
Message-ID: <ad86d601-14cf-6c16-fd18-4c0014966ac7@orange.fr>

> Many time zones do not switch to daylight time, and many
> zones seem not to have a short name like "PT" or "PST"
> for Pacific [Standard] Time.
> 
> But I?m unable to find out how to get appropriate votes
> into SurveyTool.

For Your information: I?m going to post "<none>" in these
empty fields.

https://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/11655#comment:3

Regards,
Marcel

From cldr-users at unicode.org  Sun Dec  9 06:55:26 2018
From: cldr-users at unicode.org (lmelonimamo via CLDR-Users)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2018 12:55:26 +0000
Subject: Converting translation files to xml
Message-ID: <pNFX3xLw5vUwVzB137uncqPCvZrjEPWB_wgygsOWIIoZLzjiHT8quF4VzZgHiCvL9DH_4rLjKCjZD02r_t8zIikpb0-rFDjUOvzQWzAyAUc=@protonmail.com>

Hello,

I'm trying to contribute to Sardinian by using some translation files that I worked on some time ago (the ISO standards for Debian, that contain things like translations for currencies, locales, language families, countries and administrative divisions). I have them in these formats: csv, po, tmx, tbx, xliff and xlsx. Is there a way to convert them to the xml format that can be used for bulk data upload?

Best regards,
Luca
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://unicode.org/pipermail/cldr-users/attachments/20181209/366d9aaf/attachment.html>

From cldr-users at unicode.org  Mon Dec 10 05:06:40 2018
From: cldr-users at unicode.org (=?UTF-8?B?TWFyayBEYXZpcyDimJXvuI8=?= via CLDR-Users)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 12:06:40 +0100
Subject: SurveyTool support request: How do you vote for empty?
In-Reply-To: <ad86d601-14cf-6c16-fd18-4c0014966ac7@orange.fr>
References: <b2ef8fed-c332-86af-0e73-d7b23665bdf6@orange.fr>
 <ad86d601-14cf-6c16-fd18-4c0014966ac7@orange.fr>
Message-ID: <CAJ2xs_FGKarr0gPdALm+9D+xNsm_bf+xd+d7qafb0971ZAY_Ng@mail.gmail.com>

Please don't do that or encourage others to.

If the strings were ever to be used (such as if a timezone or metazone adds
daylight savings) then the literal string would show up to users, eg "12:35
<none>". You may be using Coverage: Comprehensive, which should not
normally be used without direction by administrators, especially for
timezones, since it contains many many items that are not normally used and
should just be left alone. If so, you should reset down to Coverage: Modern.

If you have suggestions for a hacks for getting around what you see as a
problem, please file a ticket. The committee will review and then let
people know if it is a recommended approach. (It has done so in the past
for various issues raised by vetters.)

Mark


On Sat, Dec 8, 2018 at 6:28 AM Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users <
cldr-users at unicode.org> wrote:

> > Many time zones do not switch to daylight time, and many
> > zones seem not to have a short name like "PT" or "PST"
> > for Pacific [Standard] Time.
> >
> > But I?m unable to find out how to get appropriate votes
> > into SurveyTool.
>
> For Your information: I?m going to post "<none>" in these
> empty fields.
>
> https://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/11655#comment:3
>
> Regards,
> Marcel
> _______________________________________________
> CLDR-Users mailing list
> CLDR-Users at unicode.org
> http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://unicode.org/pipermail/cldr-users/attachments/20181210/3ab3bfa6/attachment-0001.html>

From cldr-users at unicode.org  Mon Dec 10 07:48:28 2018
From: cldr-users at unicode.org (Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 14:48:28 +0100
Subject: SurveyTool support request: How do you vote for empty?
In-Reply-To: <CAJ2xs_FGKarr0gPdALm+9D+xNsm_bf+xd+d7qafb0971ZAY_Ng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b2ef8fed-c332-86af-0e73-d7b23665bdf6@orange.fr>
 <ad86d601-14cf-6c16-fd18-4c0014966ac7@orange.fr>
 <CAJ2xs_FGKarr0gPdALm+9D+xNsm_bf+xd+d7qafb0971ZAY_Ng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <98317add-4fc4-ddaf-4e3c-076fa27e2261@orange.fr>

On 10/12/2018 12:06, Mark Davis ?? wrote:
> Please don't do that or encourage others to.
I?m sorry.
>
> If the strings were ever to be used (such as if a timezone or metazone adds daylight savings) then the literal string would show up to users, eg "12:35 <none>".
Tbat was not intended behavior, but postprocessing and resolution replacing the embarrassment placeholder.
Of course I will abstain, thanks for the guideline.
> You may be using Coverage: Comprehensive, which should not normally be used without direction by administrators, especially for timezones, since it contains many many items that are not normally used and should just be left alone. If so, you should reset down to Coverage: Modern.
Indeed I am, but otherwise I cannot solve the many problems that otherwise would be hidden. Eg Qyzylorda Time is not included in Coverage:Modern, so it?s hidden to me when I?m not under Coverage:Comprehensive, yet it is untranslated and as such is on my SurveyTool Dashboard, but only when I?m under Coverage:Comprehensive.

Would you allow me to stay under Coverage:Comprehensive under these circumstances?
>
> If you have suggestions for a hacks for getting around what you see as a problem, please file a ticket. The committee will review and then let people know if it is a recommended approach. (It has done so in the past for various issues raised by vetters.)
Will do, thanks. Yet I don?t retrieve the values to get rid of, and they?re not in XML neither. Perhaps when I saw them it was under ST shakedown and something went wrong for me.

Best regards,

Marcel
>
> Mark
> //
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 8, 2018 at 6:28 AM Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users <cldr-users at unicode.org <mailto:cldr-users at unicode.org>> wrote:
>
>     > Many time zones do not switch to daylight time, and many
>     > zones seem not to have a short name like "PT" or "PST"
>     > for Pacific [Standard] Time.
>     >
>     > But I?m unable to find out how to get appropriate votes
>     > into SurveyTool.
>
>     For Your information: I?m going to post "<none>" in these
>     empty fields.
>
>     https://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/11655#comment:3
>
>     Regards,
>     Marcel
>     _______________________________________________
>     CLDR-Users mailing list
>     CLDR-Users at unicode.org <mailto:CLDR-Users at unicode.org>
>     http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://unicode.org/pipermail/cldr-users/attachments/20181210/e6df95c6/attachment.html>

From cldr-users at unicode.org  Tue Dec 11 09:55:17 2018
From: cldr-users at unicode.org (=?UTF-8?B?TWFyayBEYXZpcyDimJXvuI8=?= via CLDR-Users)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 16:55:17 +0100
Subject: Converting translation files to xml
In-Reply-To: <pNFX3xLw5vUwVzB137uncqPCvZrjEPWB_wgygsOWIIoZLzjiHT8quF4VzZgHiCvL9DH_4rLjKCjZD02r_t8zIikpb0-rFDjUOvzQWzAyAUc=@protonmail.com>
References: <pNFX3xLw5vUwVzB137uncqPCvZrjEPWB_wgygsOWIIoZLzjiHT8quF4VzZgHiCvL9DH_4rLjKCjZD02r_t8zIikpb0-rFDjUOvzQWzAyAUc=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ2xs_GE--LJHfgQ-B0U18D1Vksj8OHwa_hBSmEzMrO=QHAwtQ@mail.gmail.com>

There is no automatic way to do that, sorry.

Mark


On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 4:54 PM lmelonimamo via CLDR-Users <
cldr-users at unicode.org> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm trying to contribute to Sardinian by using some translation files that
> I worked on some time ago (the ISO standards for Debian, that contain
> things like translations for currencies, locales, language families,
> countries and administrative divisions). I have them in these formats: csv,
> po, tmx, tbx, xliff and xlsx. Is there a way to convert them to the xml
> format that can be used for bulk data upload?
>
> Best regards,
> Luca
>
> _______________________________________________
> CLDR-Users mailing list
> CLDR-Users at unicode.org
> http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://unicode.org/pipermail/cldr-users/attachments/20181211/23519e5a/attachment.html>

From cldr-users at unicode.org  Tue Dec 11 10:54:48 2018
From: cldr-users at unicode.org (Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 17:54:48 +0100
Subject: Minifying CLDR sources
In-Reply-To: <4c077c9e-f132-a8b3-baec-6b6bec76979b@orange.fr>
References: <32b9eb3b-6fdb-2b22-a6bb-0f34fdf1d34d@orange.fr>
 <4ace2465-2a07-4ec6-8ece-a25ec31300fa@ix.netcom.com>
 <CAFYQx+An5-48cTCOL=OqbTgDRjihTLT=1qE5B1kBRdpsAtS9uQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <e5b7d189-04ba-13a8-4414-c671a954607e@orange.fr>
 <531cf9b2-b817-eba4-fd3e-a8d82e3ae993@orange.fr>
 <4c077c9e-f132-a8b3-baec-6b6bec76979b@orange.fr>
Message-ID: <80f6a76c-54ec-ff7d-0c49-a963fa9ef7d8@orange.fr>

On 01/12/2018 14:59, Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users wrote:
[?]
> Given that minifying the files is an interesting issue, one might wish to go even a step further by collapsing
> the element of the keywords and the element of the short name.
[?]
> After collapsing:
> <annotation cp="??" sna="peau claire">peau | peau claire</annotation>

Turns out that was how the data was stored at release 27 (first annotations/ subdirectory):

<!-- GRINNING FACE; face; grin -->
<annotation cp='[??]' tts='sourire' draft='provisional'>sourire; dr?le</annotation>

That must have been so impractical that it was decided to modify the schema for release 30:

<!-- 1F600 grinning face; face; grin -->
<annotation cp="??">sourire</annotation>
<annotation cp="??" type="tts">grand sourire</annotation>

That is how the emoji annotation data is stored today.

Best regards,

Marcel

From cldr-users at unicode.org  Tue Dec 11 12:13:47 2018
From: cldr-users at unicode.org (Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 19:13:47 +0100
Subject: Converting translation files to xml
In-Reply-To: <pNFX3xLw5vUwVzB137uncqPCvZrjEPWB_wgygsOWIIoZLzjiHT8quF4VzZgHiCvL9DH_4rLjKCjZD02r_t8zIikpb0-rFDjUOvzQWzAyAUc=@protonmail.com>
References: <pNFX3xLw5vUwVzB137uncqPCvZrjEPWB_wgygsOWIIoZLzjiHT8quF4VzZgHiCvL9DH_4rLjKCjZD02r_t8zIikpb0-rFDjUOvzQWzAyAUc=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d5f2733-20e2-08d6-e723-eb789d961270@orange.fr>

On 09/12/2018 13:55, lmelonimamo via CLDR-Users wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm trying to contribute to Sardinian by using some translation files
> that I worked on some time ago (the ISO standards for Debian, that
> contain things like translations for currencies, locales, language
> families, countries and administrative divisions). I have them in
> these formats: csv, po, tmx, tbx, xliff and xlsx. Is there a way to
> convert them to the xml format that can be used for bulk data
> upload?

On 11/12/2018 16:55, Mark Davis ?? via CLDR-Users wrote:
> There is no automatic way to do that, sorry.
> 

I?m currently editing XML/LDML by hand and do that using text editors
and spreadsheet software which is known as the quick-and-dirty way.
There?s much copy-pasting, formulas add code around the data, and for
final formatting VS Code has the XML Tools extension.

Nothing new for you but on my part I always thought at programs able
to take in format X, store the data and output it as an XML file
based on the provided DTD. Turns out it?s not that easy.

Good luck.

Best regards,
Marcel

From cldr-users at unicode.org  Tue Dec 11 16:34:28 2018
From: cldr-users at unicode.org (Steven R. Loomis via CLDR-Users)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 14:34:28 -0800
Subject: Converting translation files to xml
In-Reply-To: <8d5f2733-20e2-08d6-e723-eb789d961270@orange.fr>
References: <pNFX3xLw5vUwVzB137uncqPCvZrjEPWB_wgygsOWIIoZLzjiHT8quF4VzZgHiCvL9DH_4rLjKCjZD02r_t8zIikpb0-rFDjUOvzQWzAyAUc=@protonmail.com>
 <8d5f2733-20e2-08d6-e723-eb789d961270@orange.fr>
Message-ID: <CAFYQx+DA9ebVzXFCx+dMasPsAP_cFo0wEmHPj6bei-oC1=JWHw@mail.gmail.com>

Marcel,
 The DTD gives you some,but not all of the information needed to produce
LDML. The spec is needed as well.

 An XML DTD is not enough information to automatically transform between
formats.

Luca,
 As Mark said there is currently no automatic way to do this transform
between xliff and ldml. . It's not a bad idea, though,  An issue though is
how the naming would work. Some amount of configuration would be needed to
set up this transform even in the best case.


On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 10:13 AM Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users <
cldr-users at unicode.org> wrote:

> On 09/12/2018 13:55, lmelonimamo via CLDR-Users wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm trying to contribute to Sardinian by using some translation files
> > that I worked on some time ago (the ISO standards for Debian, that
> > contain things like translations for currencies, locales, language
> > families, countries and administrative divisions). I have them in
> > these formats: csv, po, tmx, tbx, xliff and xlsx. Is there a way to
> > convert them to the xml format that can be used for bulk data
> > upload?
>
> On 11/12/2018 16:55, Mark Davis ?? via CLDR-Users wrote:
> > There is no automatic way to do that, sorry.
> >
>
> I?m currently editing XML/LDML by hand and do that using text editors
> and spreadsheet software which is known as the quick-and-dirty way.
> There?s much copy-pasting, formulas add code around the data, and for
> final formatting VS Code has the XML Tools extension.
>
> Nothing new for you but on my part I always thought at programs able
> to take in format X, store the data and output it as an XML file
> based on the provided DTD. Turns out it?s not that easy.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Best regards,
> Marcel
> _______________________________________________
> CLDR-Users mailing list
> CLDR-Users at unicode.org
> http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://unicode.org/pipermail/cldr-users/attachments/20181211/a6f7a3a8/attachment.html>

From cldr-users at unicode.org  Wed Dec 12 01:59:18 2018
From: cldr-users at unicode.org (Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 08:59:18 +0100
Subject: Converting translation files to xml
In-Reply-To: <CAFYQx+DA9ebVzXFCx+dMasPsAP_cFo0wEmHPj6bei-oC1=JWHw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <pNFX3xLw5vUwVzB137uncqPCvZrjEPWB_wgygsOWIIoZLzjiHT8quF4VzZgHiCvL9DH_4rLjKCjZD02r_t8zIikpb0-rFDjUOvzQWzAyAUc=@protonmail.com>
 <8d5f2733-20e2-08d6-e723-eb789d961270@orange.fr>
 <CAFYQx+DA9ebVzXFCx+dMasPsAP_cFo0wEmHPj6bei-oC1=JWHw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1b67fc25-4e21-c085-8359-df01d28e9c15@orange.fr>

On 11/12/2018 23:34, Steven R. Loomis wrote:
> Marcel,
> ?The DTD gives you some,but not all of the information needed to produce LDML. The spec is needed as well.
Is that due to an insufficient level of support the DTD schema language is actually capable of? Perhaps it needs to be upgraded like HTML, CSS and PHP are regularly. Obviously the momentum to improve the latter three is much stronger than for special usage like what is needed for LDML. Wikipedia states:

            As of 2009, newerXML namespace <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML_namespace>-awareschema languages <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML_schema>(such asW3C <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W3C>XML Schema <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML_Schema_%28W3C%29>andISO <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Organization_for_Standardization>RELAX NG <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RELAX_NG>) have largely superseded DTDs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Document_type_definition

>
> ?An XML DTD is not enough information to automatically transform between formats.
Then it?s surprising, and would be interesting to investigate, that XLIFF is reported ?to allow translation work to be standardised no matter what the source format and to allow the work to be freely moved from tool to tool.?
http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/translate-toolkit/en/latest/commands/xliff2po.html?id=toolkit/xliff2po&redirect=1

XLIFF benefits from support by many tools and it?s backed by both OASIS and Microsoft:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLIFF#Related_tools

The spec?s introduction is very promising and thus might raise the question why LDML and XLIFF haven?t been merged:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/xliff/v1.2/os/xliff-core.html#SectionIntroduction

My hints are that either XLIFF is proprietary and thus unfit for a free and collaborative database like CLDR, despite it has many open source tools in its galaxy.
Or it?s for the same reason its usage is discouraged on the following project, among other reasons: ?XLIFF verbosity is unbearable.?
https://github.com/symfony/symfony/issues/22566
>
> Luca,
> ?As Mark said there is currently no automatic way to do this transform between xliff and ldml. . It's not a bad idea, though, ?An issue though is how the naming would work. Some amount of configuration would be needed to set up this transform even in the best case.
Indeed a library is probably needed to get the types matching, and that would need to be set up by hand.

Microsoft?s XLIFF 2.0 object model is here, but where is the locale data? Where else than in CLDR?
https://github.com/Microsoft/XLIFF2-Object-Model

Didn?t XLIFF predate LDML (2002 vs 2003)? Perhaps they were too far away from each other to be merged like Unicode and ISO/IEC?10646.

Marcel
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 10:13 AM Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users <cldr-users at unicode.org <mailto:cldr-users at unicode.org>> wrote:
>
>     On 09/12/2018 13:55, lmelonimamo via CLDR-Users wrote:
>     > Hello,
>     >
>     > I'm trying to contribute to Sardinian by using some translation files
>     > that I worked on some time ago (the ISO standards for Debian, that
>     > contain things like translations for currencies, locales, language
>     > families, countries and administrative divisions). I have them in
>     > these formats: csv, po, tmx, tbx, xliff and xlsx. Is there a way to
>     > convert them to the xml format that can be used for bulk data
>     > upload?
>
>     On 11/12/2018 16:55, Mark Davis ?? via CLDR-Users wrote:
>     > There is no automatic way to do that, sorry.
>     >
>
>     I?m currently editing XML/LDML by hand and do that using text editors
>     and spreadsheet software which is known as the quick-and-dirty way.
>     There?s much copy-pasting, formulas add code around the data, and for
>     final formatting VS Code has the XML Tools extension.
>
>     Nothing new for you but on my part I always thought at programs able
>     to take in format X, store the data and output it as an XML file
>     based on the provided DTD. Turns out it?s not that easy.
>
>     Good luck.
>
>     Best regards,
>     Marcel
>     _______________________________________________
>     CLDR-Users mailing list
>     CLDR-Users at unicode.org <mailto:CLDR-Users at unicode.org>
>     http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://unicode.org/pipermail/cldr-users/attachments/20181212/f47e5333/attachment-0001.html>

From cldr-users at unicode.org  Wed Dec 12 04:45:19 2018
From: cldr-users at unicode.org (=?UTF-8?B?TWFyayBEYXZpcyDimJXvuI8=?= via CLDR-Users)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 11:45:19 +0100
Subject: Converting translation files to xml
In-Reply-To: <1b67fc25-4e21-c085-8359-df01d28e9c15@orange.fr>
References: <pNFX3xLw5vUwVzB137uncqPCvZrjEPWB_wgygsOWIIoZLzjiHT8quF4VzZgHiCvL9DH_4rLjKCjZD02r_t8zIikpb0-rFDjUOvzQWzAyAUc=@protonmail.com>
 <8d5f2733-20e2-08d6-e723-eb789d961270@orange.fr>
 <CAFYQx+DA9ebVzXFCx+dMasPsAP_cFo0wEmHPj6bei-oC1=JWHw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1b67fc25-4e21-c085-8359-df01d28e9c15@orange.fr>
Message-ID: <CAJ2xs_G0xRzc+oPhFa=SHL_uhKpt2irZ5mJWgn8137en-ui_dQ@mail.gmail.com>

XLIFF didn't offer everything that we needed. Note that the DTD in CLDR is
augmented in order to give us much more control over the structure, as
needed to make inheritance work properly.

If some enterprising person wanted to put together and make available other
tools (eg on github) for generating CLDR XML from various types of sources,
that might be useful to experiment with.

Mark


On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 9:00 AM Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users <
cldr-users at unicode.org> wrote:

> On 11/12/2018 23:34, Steven R. Loomis wrote:
>
> Marcel,
>  The DTD gives you some,but not all of the information needed to produce
> LDML. The spec is needed as well.
>
> Is that due to an insufficient level of support the DTD schema language is
> actually capable of? Perhaps it needs to be upgraded like HTML, CSS and PHP
> are regularly. Obviously the momentum to improve the latter three is much
> stronger than for special usage like what is needed for LDML. Wikipedia
> states:
>
> As of 2009, newer XML namespace
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML_namespace>-aware schema languages
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML_schema> (such as W3C
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W3C> XML Schema
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML_Schema_%28W3C%29> and ISO
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Organization_for_Standardization>
>  RELAX NG <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RELAX_NG>) have largely
> superseded DTDs.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Document_type_definition
>
>
>  An XML DTD is not enough information to automatically transform between
> formats.
>
> Then it?s surprising, and would be interesting to investigate, that XLIFF
> is reported ?to allow translation work to be standardised no matter what
> the source format and to allow the work to be freely moved from tool to
> tool.?
>
> http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/translate-toolkit/en/latest/commands/xliff2po.html?id=toolkit/xliff2po&redirect=1
>
> XLIFF benefits from support by many tools and it?s backed by both OASIS
> and Microsoft:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLIFF#Related_tools
>
> The spec?s introduction is very promising and thus might raise the
> question why LDML and XLIFF haven?t been merged:
>
> http://docs.oasis-open.org/xliff/v1.2/os/xliff-core.html#SectionIntroduction
>
> My hints are that either XLIFF is proprietary and thus unfit for a free
> and collaborative database like CLDR, despite it has many open source tools
> in its galaxy.
> Or it?s for the same reason its usage is discouraged on the following
> project, among other reasons: ?XLIFF verbosity is unbearable.?
> https://github.com/symfony/symfony/issues/22566
>
>
> Luca,
>  As Mark said there is currently no automatic way to do this transform
> between xliff and ldml. . It's not a bad idea, though,  An issue though is
> how the naming would work. Some amount of configuration would be needed to
> set up this transform even in the best case.
>
> Indeed a library is probably needed to get the types matching, and that
> would need to be set up by hand.
>
> Microsoft?s XLIFF 2.0 object model is here, but where is the locale data?
> Where else than in CLDR?
> https://github.com/Microsoft/XLIFF2-Object-Model
>
> Didn?t XLIFF predate LDML (2002 vs 2003)? Perhaps they were too far away
> from each other to be merged like Unicode and ISO/IEC?10646.
>
> Marcel
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 10:13 AM Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users <
> cldr-users at unicode.org> wrote:
>
>> On 09/12/2018 13:55, lmelonimamo via CLDR-Users wrote:
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I'm trying to contribute to Sardinian by using some translation files
>> > that I worked on some time ago (the ISO standards for Debian, that
>> > contain things like translations for currencies, locales, language
>> > families, countries and administrative divisions). I have them in
>> > these formats: csv, po, tmx, tbx, xliff and xlsx. Is there a way to
>> > convert them to the xml format that can be used for bulk data
>> > upload?
>>
>> On 11/12/2018 16:55, Mark Davis ?? via CLDR-Users wrote:
>> > There is no automatic way to do that, sorry.
>> >
>>
>> I?m currently editing XML/LDML by hand and do that using text editors
>> and spreadsheet software which is known as the quick-and-dirty way.
>> There?s much copy-pasting, formulas add code around the data, and for
>> final formatting VS Code has the XML Tools extension.
>>
>> Nothing new for you but on my part I always thought at programs able
>> to take in format X, store the data and output it as an XML file
>> based on the provided DTD. Turns out it?s not that easy.
>>
>> Good luck.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Marcel
>> _______________________________________________
>> CLDR-Users mailing list
>> CLDR-Users at unicode.org
>> http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CLDR-Users mailing list
> CLDR-Users at unicode.org
> http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://unicode.org/pipermail/cldr-users/attachments/20181212/c0b51526/attachment.html>

From cldr-users at unicode.org  Wed Dec 12 18:12:12 2018
From: cldr-users at unicode.org (lmelonimamo via CLDR-Users)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 00:12:12 +0000
Subject: Converting translation files to xml
In-Reply-To: <CAJ2xs_G0xRzc+oPhFa=SHL_uhKpt2irZ5mJWgn8137en-ui_dQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <pNFX3xLw5vUwVzB137uncqPCvZrjEPWB_wgygsOWIIoZLzjiHT8quF4VzZgHiCvL9DH_4rLjKCjZD02r_t8zIikpb0-rFDjUOvzQWzAyAUc=@protonmail.com>
 <8d5f2733-20e2-08d6-e723-eb789d961270@orange.fr>
 <CAFYQx+DA9ebVzXFCx+dMasPsAP_cFo0wEmHPj6bei-oC1=JWHw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1b67fc25-4e21-c085-8359-df01d28e9c15@orange.fr>
 <CAJ2xs_G0xRzc+oPhFa=SHL_uhKpt2irZ5mJWgn8137en-ui_dQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Uvb9QWcOZKGroEBgY8IFCm5YbryOJnPIUVVwRQ0w8fNkLKMMfsoaGuofpsqFfg6vC57tN4mUl-otEbxCyQ27VWu7PZ0j0O9rSRu49skEb38=@protonmail.com>

Ok, thank you very much to everyone for the answers and the informations. I had this doubt for a while, since I saw that using some online translation tools I could export data in different formats, but this particular kind of xml was not one of them. Well, too bad. I guess we will have to hope there will be a way to do it in the future, then.

Best regards,
Luca

??????? Original Message ???????
On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 11:45 AM, Mark Davis ?? <mark at macchiato.com> wrote:

> XLIFF didn't offer everything that we needed. Note that the DTD in CLDR is augmented in order to give us much more control over the structure, as needed to make inheritance work properly.
>
> If some enterprising person wanted to put together and make available other tools (eg on github) for generating CLDR XML from various types of sources, that might be useful to experiment with.
>
> Mark
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 9:00 AM Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users <cldr-users at unicode.org> wrote:
>
>> On 11/12/2018 23:34, Steven R. Loomis wrote:
>>
>>> Marcel,
>>>  The DTD gives you some,but not all of the information needed to produce LDML. The spec is needed as well.
>>
>> Is that due to an insufficient level of support the DTD schema language is actually capable of? Perhaps it needs to be upgraded like HTML, CSS and PHP are regularly. Obviously the momentum to improve the latter three is much stronger than for special usage like what is needed for LDML. Wikipedia states:
>>
>>>>> As of 2009, newer [XML namespace](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML_namespace)-aware [schema languages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML_schema) (such as [W3C](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W3C) [XML Schema](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML_Schema_%28W3C%29) and [ISO](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Organization_for_Standardization) [RELAX NG](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RELAX_NG)) have largely superseded DTDs.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Document_type_definition
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>  An XML DTD is not enough information to automatically transform between formats.
>>
>> Then it?s surprising, and would be interesting to investigate, that XLIFF is reported ?to allow translation work to be standardised no matter what the source format and to allow the work to be freely moved from tool to tool.?
>> http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/translate-toolkit/en/latest/commands/xliff2po.html?id=toolkit/xliff2po&redirect=1
>>
>> XLIFF benefits from support by many tools and it?s backed by both OASIS and Microsoft:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLIFF#Related_tools
>>
>> The spec?s introduction is very promising and thus might raise the question why LDML and XLIFF haven?t been merged:
>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/xliff/v1.2/os/xliff-core.html#SectionIntroduction
>>
>> My hints are that either XLIFF is proprietary and thus unfit for a free and collaborative database like CLDR, despite it has many open source tools in its galaxy.
>> Or it?s for the same reason its usage is discouraged on the following project, among other reasons: ?XLIFF verbosity is unbearable.?
>> https://github.com/symfony/symfony/issues/22566
>>
>>> Luca,
>>>  As Mark said there is currently no automatic way to do this transform between xliff and ldml. . It's not a bad idea, though,  An issue though is how the naming would work. Some amount of configuration would be needed to set up this transform even in the best case.
>>
>> Indeed a library is probably needed to get the types matching, and that would need to be set up by hand.
>>
>> Microsoft?s XLIFF 2.0 object model is here, but where is the locale data? Where else than in CLDR?
>> https://github.com/Microsoft/XLIFF2-Object-Model
>>
>> Didn?t XLIFF predate LDML (2002 vs 2003)? Perhaps they were too far away from each other to be merged like Unicode and ISO/IEC?10646.
>>
>> Marcel
>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 10:13 AM Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users <cldr-users at unicode.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 09/12/2018 13:55, lmelonimamo via CLDR-Users wrote:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm trying to contribute to Sardinian by using some translation files
>>>>> that I worked on some time ago (the ISO standards for Debian, that
>>>>> contain things like translations for currencies, locales, language
>>>>> families, countries and administrative divisions). I have them in
>>>>> these formats: csv, po, tmx, tbx, xliff and xlsx. Is there a way to
>>>>> convert them to the xml format that can be used for bulk data
>>>>> upload?
>>>>
>>>> On 11/12/2018 16:55, Mark Davis ?? via CLDR-Users wrote:
>>>>> There is no automatic way to do that, sorry.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I?m currently editing XML/LDML by hand and do that using text editors
>>>> and spreadsheet software which is known as the quick-and-dirty way.
>>>> There?s much copy-pasting, formulas add code around the data, and for
>>>> final formatting VS Code has the XML Tools extension.
>>>>
>>>> Nothing new for you but on my part I always thought at programs able
>>>> to take in format X, store the data and output it as an XML file
>>>> based on the provided DTD. Turns out it?s not that easy.
>>>>
>>>> Good luck.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Marcel
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> CLDR-Users mailing list
>>>> CLDR-Users at unicode.org
>>>> http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CLDR-Users mailing list
>> CLDR-Users at unicode.org
>> http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://unicode.org/pipermail/cldr-users/attachments/20181213/84cc35be/attachment-0001.html>

From cldr-users at unicode.org  Thu Dec 20 08:45:18 2018
From: cldr-users at unicode.org (Marcel Schneider via CLDR-Users)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 15:45:18 +0100
Subject: Where is CLDR emoji annotation data used? And why is it not used?
Message-ID: <df002b1e-ba2f-f48e-8ea4-f575358a5700@orange.fr>

While striving to edit a subset of emoji data now under survey, I?ve
tried to find out where that data is actually used, but couldn?t find
anything on the internet. Most social media either don?t have a search
bar in the emoji palette and don?t display TTS names in tooltips, or
don?t feature emoji palettes at all, or if they do, the data displayed
or recognized at search doesn?t match CLDR data (neither keywords nor
emoji names), despite that platform (birdie microblogging) is reported
to implement CLDR data. It?s not a matter of using latest release as
previous data doesn?t match neither.

Hence I feel a need to ask one simple question: What is the point in
having emoji annotations in CLDR, if CLDR users are redacting that data
considered ?raw data? or even disregard that data and make up their own
databases for all the locales they are supporting, so as to use fully
proprietary data and not to contribute to common efforts in maintaining
the data in the Common Locale Data Repository?

Any hints are welcome, notably those pertaining to the quality of the
data so that we can assess whether the data meets the requirements, and
if it doesn?t, what can be done to improve the quality of the data so
that it conforms to the standards set by CLDR users.

Marcel