iPhone's other languages list from CLDR?

Don Osborn dzo at bisharat.net
Tue Jan 5 14:38:23 CST 2016


Thanks Chris. In the example Steven gave,/1 however, there is apparently 
no locale for Comorian / Shimaore / Shikomor / Shimasiwa / swb. In fact, 
comparing the list Steven provided with my list of what I saw on 
iPhone6s+, there are 18 languages (or 19 if counting Soninke twice for 
Arabic & Latin scripts) among the 74 African languages listed for which 
CLDR does not have data. All these languages do appear in the list of 
languages named in the locale data shared by Shervin./2

How (by what criteria) were the languages not in CLDR chosen to add to 
the list? Neither a problem nor a complaint, just curious.

On the other hand, there are 46 languages (by quick visual count in the 
"main" folder I downloaded from unicode.org) that (a) do have locales 
currently listed in CLDR, but (b) do *not* appear in iPhone6s's 
repertoire. Many of those are less-resourced and less-widely spoken, so 
perhaps not a priority, but some like Amharic, Hausa, Tigrinya, and 
Tsonga are significant. Which raises another question: Why were some 
languages not included? Again, just hoping to better understand the 
approach taken.

Comparing the lists does highlight gaps in coverage of locales for the 
18 languages mentioned above, although two of them, Fanti and Twi might 
be considered as covered by Akan. The other 16 on the iPhone list but 
not represented in CLDR include:
* Adangme (this is close to Ga, for which there is locale data)
* Comorian (the Swahili locale might possibly be of some help on this)
* Kanuri
* Kimbundu
* Kuanyama (might be worked on together with Ndonga - these are 
sometimes considered together as Oshiwambo)
* Lozi
* Luba-Lulua (aka Tshiluba; not sure how close this is to Luba-Katanga, 
for which there is a locale data)
* Mende
* Mossi (aka Moore)
* Ndonga (might be worked on together with Kuanyama - these are 
sometimes considered together as Oshiwambo)
* Ngambay
* Soninke (Latin and Arabic, though I don't know how widely the latter 
transcription - "Ajami" - is used)
* Sukuma
* Tumbuka
* Umbundu
* Yemba

Thanks in advance for any further info or pointers (if this is getting 
off-topic for the list, that could be offlist).

Steven, regarding improving CLDR coverage of African languages, agree 
there is a need. Last major effort was the 100 locales project of ANLoc, 
Kamusi, and IT46+ about 5-6 years ago. Last status I'm aware of via the 
old LocaleGen utility/3 (worth noting that 15 of the 16 I just listed 
above are on this status list, and the 16th, Luba-Lulua might be 
intended by the mistagged "Kiluba"). Not aware of any organization 
actively pursuing this now - let alone any funding available for 
initiatives in this area. It's beyond what I'm in the position to take 
on now but will try to keep the word circulating.

Best to all,

Don Osborn

1. https://gist.github.com/srl295/f87d06a1405a23e85827
2. http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/browser/trunk/common/main/de.xml#L228
3. http://www.it46.se/afrigen/statistics.php


On 1/5/2016 3:33 AM, Chris Hansten wrote:
> Steven is correct.
>
> —chris
>
>> On Jan 4, 2016, at 10:31 AM, Steven R. Loomis <srl at icu-project.org 
>> <mailto:srl at icu-project.org>> wrote:
>>
>> That’s my assumption. This list doesn’t show up as the “iPhone language”.
>>
>>  Looking at the context and functionality, it’s a list of languages 
>> that can be chosen to request application or website content - 
>> analogous to the browser’s language chooser. If you choose Shimaore 
>> (Comoran) and an application is written to have content for such a 
>> language (BCP47 ID ‘swb’)  the user will see this content. The data 
>> is certainly from CLDR, possibly with a few autonyms supplemented ( 
>> “Shimaore” for swb?).
>>
>>  Some time ago, it seems apps were opened up to support bcp47 codes 
>> instead of a more restricted list (“English” “Spanish” etc.) I don’t 
>> think there’s a lot of news here other than that the selector 
>> continues to expand. This doesn’t imply any additional data other 
>> than the autonym.
>>
>>  When you pursue other avenues, please consider how to improve CLDR 
>> coverage for these languages, if you aren’t already considering so of 
>> course.
>>
>> Steven
>>
>>
>>
>>> El ene 4, 2016, a las 9:48 AM, Chris Hansten <chrish at apple.com 
>>> <mailto:chrish at apple.com>> escribió:
>>>
>>> Hi Don,
>>>
>>> When you asked the original question, I assume you are asking about 
>>> the preferred language order setting. Correct?
>>>
>>> —chris
>>>
>>>> On Jan 4, 2016, at 5:00 AM, Philippe Verdy <verdy_p at wanadoo.fr 
>>>> <mailto:verdy_p at wanadoo.fr>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I just wonder if Apple really chose those languages. They may have 
>>>> just searched about local demands and usage and thought it would be 
>>>> useful for its market to extend the list to everything that is 
>>>> available, using various local sources to define what was the 
>>>> minimum needed to support these locales.
>>>> However, the reviewal process for the data mayh have been 
>>>> minimalist, and there would be corrections later in various 
>>>> aspects. Apple took its responsability and did not wait for a 
>>>> formal international agreement or standardization process. It could 
>>>> do it, and did it. Apple will correct errors later by listening its 
>>>> users and bug reports on its own developement platform and services.
>>>>
>>>> 2016-01-04 6:04 GMT+01:00 Don Osborn <dzo at bisharat.net 
>>>> <mailto:dzo at bisharat.net>>:
>>>>
>>>>     Basically:
>>>>     1) How the list was generated / languages chosen
>>>>     2) What they plan to do with it (or how they foresee it
>>>>     developing if the strategy is to encourage apps)
>>>>
>>>>     I am also pursuing other avenues also, but any help
>>>>     appreciated. Nothing urgent, but it looks like something
>>>>     significant, given the length and composition of the list.
>>>>
>>>>     Don
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     On 1/3/2016 12:40 AM, Steven R. Loomis wrote:
>>>>>     You are welcome, Don.
>>>>>      Can you give some more detail on what you are looking for?
>>>>>     -s
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>     El dic 30, 2015, a las 11:42 AM, Don Osborn <dzo at bisharat.net
>>>>>>     <mailto:dzo at bisharat.net>> escribió:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Thank you Shervin and Steven for these responses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Steven, This list with notes is especially helpful - am still
>>>>>>     digesting. Will compare in more detail with the iPhone list.
>>>>>>     That exercise would be more rewarding in a cross-operating
>>>>>>     system comparison - if there were a clear list of what's on
>>>>>>     Android.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Also hoping for more info from someone at Apple who is
>>>>>>     well-placed to discuss their approach.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Best wishes for the New Year 2016!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Don
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     On 12/29/2015 2:44 PM, Steven R. Loomis wrote:
>>>>>>>     • ICU (which uses CLDR) is noted in iOS and MacOSX’s license
>>>>>>>     information
>>>>>>>     • ICU open source (for OSX ) is linked here -
>>>>>>>     http://opensource.apple.com/source/ICU/ICU-551.41/
>>>>>>>     • default calendar information in CLDR is by region and not
>>>>>>>     by language
>>>>>>>     • Many of these locales listed are in CLDR. I printed out a
>>>>>>>     list of all locales that are in Africa (002):
>>>>>>>      ( generator source here
>>>>>>>     https://gist.github.com/srl295/f87d06a1405a23e85827 ) . I
>>>>>>>     did not correlate this to the iphone 6 list exactly but it
>>>>>>>     seems many, but not all, are actually CLDR locales.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     So these are locales of Africa which have content in CLDR:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Afar (Djibouti) - aa-DJ [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Afar (Eritrea) - aa-ER [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Afar (Ethiopia) - aa-ET [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Afrikaans (Namibia) - af-NA
>>>>>>>     Afrikaans (South Africa) - af-ZA
>>>>>>>     Aghem (Cameroon) - agq-CM
>>>>>>>     Akan (Ghana) - ak-GH
>>>>>>>     Akoose (Cameroon) - bss-CM [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Amharic (Ethiopia) - am-ET
>>>>>>>     Arabic (Algeria) - ar-DZ
>>>>>>>     Arabic (Chad) - ar-TD
>>>>>>>     Arabic (Comoros) - ar-KM
>>>>>>>     Arabic (Djibouti) - ar-DJ
>>>>>>>     Arabic (Egypt) - ar-EG
>>>>>>>     Arabic (Eritrea) - ar-ER
>>>>>>>     Arabic (Libya) - ar-LY
>>>>>>>     Arabic (Mauritania) - ar-MR
>>>>>>>     Arabic (Morocco) - ar-MA
>>>>>>>     Arabic (Somalia) - ar-SO
>>>>>>>     Arabic (South Sudan) - ar-SS
>>>>>>>     Arabic (Sudan) - ar-SD
>>>>>>>     Arabic (Tunisia) - ar-TN
>>>>>>>     Arabic (Western Sahara) - ar-EH
>>>>>>>     Asu (Tanzania) - asa-TZ
>>>>>>>     Atsam (Nigeria) - cch-NG [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Bafia (Cameroon) - ksf-CM
>>>>>>>     Bambara (Mali) - bm-ML
>>>>>>>     Bambara (N’Ko, Mali) - bm-Nkoo-ML [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Basaa (Cameroon) - bas-CM
>>>>>>>     Bemba (Zambia) - bem-ZM
>>>>>>>     Bena (Tanzania) - bez-TZ
>>>>>>>     Blin (Eritrea) - byn-ER [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Central Atlas Tamazight (Morocco) - tzm-MA
>>>>>>>     Chiga (Uganda) - cgg-UG
>>>>>>>     Duala (Cameroon) - dua-CM
>>>>>>>     Embu (Kenya) - ebu-KE
>>>>>>>     English (Botswana) - en-BW
>>>>>>>     English (Burundi) - en-BI
>>>>>>>     English (Cameroon) - en-CM
>>>>>>>     English (Eritrea) - en-ER
>>>>>>>     English (Gambia) - en-GM
>>>>>>>     English (Ghana) - en-GH
>>>>>>>     English (Kenya) - en-KE
>>>>>>>     English (Lesotho) - en-LS
>>>>>>>     English (Liberia) - en-LR
>>>>>>>     English (Madagascar) - en-MG
>>>>>>>     English (Malawi) - en-MW
>>>>>>>     English (Mauritius) - en-MU
>>>>>>>     English (Namibia) - en-NA
>>>>>>>     English (Nigeria) - en-NG
>>>>>>>     English (Rwanda) - en-RW
>>>>>>>     English (Seychelles) - en-SC
>>>>>>>     English (Sierra Leone) - en-SL
>>>>>>>     English (South Africa) - en-ZA
>>>>>>>     English (South Sudan) - en-SS
>>>>>>>     English (St. Helena) - en-SH
>>>>>>>     English (Sudan) - en-SD
>>>>>>>     English (Swaziland) - en-SZ
>>>>>>>     English (Tanzania) - en-TZ
>>>>>>>     English (Uganda) - en-UG
>>>>>>>     English (Zambia) - en-ZM
>>>>>>>     English (Zimbabwe) - en-ZW
>>>>>>>     Ewe (Ghana) - ee-GH
>>>>>>>     Ewe (Togo) - ee-TG
>>>>>>>     Ewondo (Cameroon) - ewo-CM
>>>>>>>     French (Algeria) - fr-DZ
>>>>>>>     French (Benin) - fr-BJ
>>>>>>>     French (Burkina Faso) - fr-BF
>>>>>>>     French (Burundi) - fr-BI
>>>>>>>     French (Cameroon) - fr-CM
>>>>>>>     French (Central African Republic) - fr-CF
>>>>>>>     French (Chad) - fr-TD
>>>>>>>     French (Comoros) - fr-KM
>>>>>>>     French (Congo - Brazzaville) - fr-CG
>>>>>>>     French (Congo - Kinshasa) - fr-CD
>>>>>>>     French (Côte d’Ivoire) - fr-CI
>>>>>>>     French (Djibouti) - fr-DJ
>>>>>>>     French (Equatorial Guinea) - fr-GQ
>>>>>>>     French (Gabon) - fr-GA
>>>>>>>     French (Guinea) - fr-GN
>>>>>>>     French (Madagascar) - fr-MG
>>>>>>>     French (Mali) - fr-ML
>>>>>>>     French (Mauritania) - fr-MR
>>>>>>>     French (Mauritius) - fr-MU
>>>>>>>     French (Mayotte) - fr-YT
>>>>>>>     French (Morocco) - fr-MA
>>>>>>>     French (Niger) - fr-NE
>>>>>>>     French (Réunion) - fr-RE
>>>>>>>     French (Rwanda) - fr-RW
>>>>>>>     French (Senegal) - fr-SN
>>>>>>>     French (Seychelles) - fr-SC
>>>>>>>     French (Togo) - fr-TG
>>>>>>>     French (Tunisia) - fr-TN
>>>>>>>     Fulah (Cameroon) - ff-CM
>>>>>>>     Fulah (Guinea) - ff-GN
>>>>>>>     Fulah (Mauritania) - ff-MR
>>>>>>>     Fulah (Senegal) - ff-SN
>>>>>>>     Ga (Ghana) - gaa-GH [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Ganda (Uganda) - lg-UG
>>>>>>>     Geez (Eritrea) - gez-ER [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Geez (Ethiopia) - gez-ET [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Gusii (Kenya) - guz-KE
>>>>>>>     Hausa (Arabic, Nigeria) - ha-Arab-NG [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Hausa (Arabic, Sudan) - ha-Arab-SD [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Hausa (Ghana) - ha-GH
>>>>>>>     Hausa (Niger) - ha-NE
>>>>>>>     Hausa (Nigeria) - ha-NG
>>>>>>>     Igbo (Nigeria) - ig-NG
>>>>>>>     Jju (Nigeria) - kaj-NG [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Jola-Fonyi (Senegal) - dyo-SN
>>>>>>>     Kabuverdianu (Cape Verde) - kea-CV
>>>>>>>     Kabyle (Algeria) - kab-DZ
>>>>>>>     Kako (Cameroon) - kkj-CM
>>>>>>>     Kalenjin (Kenya) - kln-KE
>>>>>>>     Kamba (Kenya) - kam-KE
>>>>>>>     Kenyang (Cameroon) - ken-CM [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Kikuyu (Kenya) - ki-KE
>>>>>>>     Kinyarwanda (Rwanda) - rw-RW
>>>>>>>     Koyraboro Senni (Mali) - ses-ML
>>>>>>>     Koyra Chiini (Mali) - khq-ML
>>>>>>>     Kpelle (Guinea) - kpe-GN [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Kpelle (Liberia) - kpe-LR [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Kwasio (Cameroon) - nmg-CM
>>>>>>>     Langi (Tanzania) - lag-TZ
>>>>>>>     Lingala (Angola) - ln-AO
>>>>>>>     Lingala (Central African Republic) - ln-CF
>>>>>>>     Lingala (Congo - Brazzaville) - ln-CG
>>>>>>>     Lingala (Congo - Kinshasa) - ln-CD
>>>>>>>     Luba-Katanga (Congo - Kinshasa) - lu-CD
>>>>>>>     Luo (Kenya) - luo-KE
>>>>>>>     Luyia (Kenya) - luy-KE
>>>>>>>     Machame (Tanzania) - jmc-TZ
>>>>>>>     Makhuwa-Meetto (Mozambique) - mgh-MZ
>>>>>>>     Makonde (Tanzania) - kde-TZ
>>>>>>>     Malagasy (Madagascar) - mg-MG
>>>>>>>     Masai (Kenya) - mas-KE
>>>>>>>     Masai (Tanzania) - mas-TZ
>>>>>>>     Meru (Kenya) - mer-KE
>>>>>>>     Metaʼ (Cameroon) - mgo-CM
>>>>>>>     Morisyen (Mauritius) - mfe-MU
>>>>>>>     Mundang (Cameroon) - mua-CM
>>>>>>>     Nama (Namibia) - naq-NA
>>>>>>>     Ngiemboon (Cameroon) - nnh-CM
>>>>>>>     Ngomba (Cameroon) - jgo-CM
>>>>>>>     Northern Sotho (South Africa) - nso-ZA [SEED]
>>>>>>>     North Ndebele (Zimbabwe) - nd-ZW
>>>>>>>     Nuer (South Sudan) - nus-SS
>>>>>>>     Nyanja (Malawi) - ny-MW [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Nyankole (Uganda) - nyn-UG
>>>>>>>     N’Ko (Guinea) - nqo-GN [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Oromo (Ethiopia) - om-ET
>>>>>>>     Oromo (Kenya) - om-KE
>>>>>>>     Portuguese (Angola) - pt-AO
>>>>>>>     Portuguese (Cape Verde) - pt-CV
>>>>>>>     Portuguese (Guinea-Bissau) - pt-GW
>>>>>>>     Portuguese (Mozambique) - pt-MZ
>>>>>>>     Portuguese (São Tomé & Príncipe) - pt-ST
>>>>>>>     Rombo (Tanzania) - rof-TZ
>>>>>>>     Rundi (Burundi) - rn-BI
>>>>>>>     Rwa (Tanzania) - rwk-TZ
>>>>>>>     Saho (Eritrea) - ssy-ER [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Samburu (Kenya) - saq-KE
>>>>>>>     Sango (Central African Republic) - sg-CF
>>>>>>>     Sangu (Tanzania) - sbp-TZ
>>>>>>>     Sena (Mozambique) - seh-MZ
>>>>>>>     Shambala (Tanzania) - ksb-TZ
>>>>>>>     Shona (Zimbabwe) - sn-ZW
>>>>>>>     Sidamo (Ethiopia) - sid-ET [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Soga (Uganda) - xog-UG
>>>>>>>     Somali (Djibouti) - so-DJ
>>>>>>>     Somali (Ethiopia) - so-ET
>>>>>>>     Somali (Kenya) - so-KE
>>>>>>>     Somali (Somalia) - so-SO
>>>>>>>     Southern Sotho (Lesotho) - st-LS [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Southern Sotho (South Africa) - st-ZA [SEED]
>>>>>>>     South Ndebele (South Africa) - nr-ZA [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Spanish (Canary Islands) - es-IC
>>>>>>>     Spanish (Ceuta & Melilla) - es-EA
>>>>>>>     Spanish (Equatorial Guinea) - es-GQ
>>>>>>>     Standard Moroccan Tamazight (Morocco) - zgh-MA
>>>>>>>     Swahili (Congo - Kinshasa) - sw-CD
>>>>>>>     Swahili (Kenya) - sw-KE
>>>>>>>     Swahili (Tanzania) - sw-TZ
>>>>>>>     Swahili (Uganda) - sw-UG
>>>>>>>     Swati (South Africa) - ss-ZA [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Swati (Swaziland) - ss-SZ [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Tachelhit (Latin, Morocco) - shi-Latn-MA
>>>>>>>     Tachelhit (Tifinagh, Morocco) - shi-Tfng-MA
>>>>>>>     Taita (Kenya) - dav-KE
>>>>>>>     Tasawaq (Niger) - twq-NE
>>>>>>>     Teso (Kenya) - teo-KE
>>>>>>>     Teso (Uganda) - teo-UG
>>>>>>>     Tigre (Eritrea) - tig-ER [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Tigrinya (Eritrea) - ti-ER
>>>>>>>     Tigrinya (Ethiopia) - ti-ET
>>>>>>>     Tsonga (South Africa) - ts-ZA [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Tswana (Botswana) - tn-BW [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Tswana (South Africa) - tn-ZA [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Tyap (Nigeria) - kcg-NG [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Vai (Latin, Liberia) - vai-Latn-LR
>>>>>>>     Vai (Vai, Liberia) - vai-Vaii-LR
>>>>>>>     Venda (South Africa) - ve-ZA [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Vunjo (Tanzania) - vun-TZ
>>>>>>>     Wolaytta (Ethiopia) - wal-ET [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Wolof (Senegal) - wo-SN [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Xhosa (South Africa) - xh-ZA [SEED]
>>>>>>>     Yangben (Cameroon) - yav-CM
>>>>>>>     Yoruba (Benin) - yo-BJ
>>>>>>>     Yoruba (Nigeria) - yo-NG
>>>>>>>     Zarma (Niger) - dje-NE
>>>>>>>     Zulu (South Africa) - zu-ZA
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     El dic 29, 2015, a las 8:30 AM, Shervin Afshar
>>>>>>>>     <shervinafshar at gmail.com <mailto:shervinafshar at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>>     escribió:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Hello,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Those are names of languages available as part of data for
>>>>>>>>     CLDR-supported locales. The mere fact that CLDR has this
>>>>>>>>     data doesn't necessarily mean that that language is a CLDR
>>>>>>>>     locale; i.e. having all sort of other information
>>>>>>>>     (date/time format, numbers, etc.) beyond these names. Here
>>>>>>>>     is the language name for Hausa as appearing in data file
>>>>>>>>     for German:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/browser/trunk/common/main/de.xml#L228
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Hope this helps.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Best Regards,
>>>>>>>>     Shervin
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     On Dec 29, 2015 8:01 AM, "Don Osborn" <dzo at bisharat.net
>>>>>>>>     <mailto:dzo at bisharat.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         Greetings, Does anyone know if Apple relied on CLDR for
>>>>>>>>         its long list of "other languages" (~240 by my
>>>>>>>>         estimation) on iPhone6c(plus)? Apologies that this is
>>>>>>>>         off-topic (replies offline probably best).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         The list of "other languages" - not the "iPhone
>>>>>>>>         languages" fully supported in iOS - is impressive,
>>>>>>>>         though looking at some of the 74 African languages*
>>>>>>>>         included (by my count) it seems most are not supported
>>>>>>>>         beyond calendars. Charles Riley suggested offline that
>>>>>>>>         some aspects of the list make it appear that it lists
>>>>>>>>         what's on CLDR.  However there are some languages one
>>>>>>>>         would expect to see that are not there (Hausa, Amharic,
>>>>>>>>         among others).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         Really interested to know more about Apple's thinking
>>>>>>>>         and methods on this. TIA for any info or leads.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         Best wishes to all for the New Year 2016.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         Don Osborn
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         *
>>>>>>>>         http://niamey.blogspot.com/2015/12/list-of-african-languages-on-iphone6s.html
>>>>>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>         CLDR-Users mailing list
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>>>>>>>>         http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/cldr-users
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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